Alpine IVA-C800

Skippman · 10-30-2001, 08:54 AM

Am I correct to assume that this screen is just a standard NTSC display? I have one installed in my Explorer and was using it's composit input. I was wondering if it would accept standard RGB input via some kind of adapter. Any ideas?

Zip-Lock · 10-30-2001, 09:55 AM

I managed to get my hands on an Apline TME-M750A http://www.carstereotime.com/alpine/tme_m750a.html and I am also using the composite input right now. I'm not really happy with the composite because it's fuzzy.

My screen has a RGB input. I was thinking about trying to make a VGA > RGB converter. Because Alpine uses a proprietary RGB input connector it would require the purchase of the tech manual for $18 to find out the pin outs.

Skippman · 10-30-2001, 02:07 PM

Do you feel confident that you could make such a beast? If so I'd gladly contribute to the cost of materials and the manual to create such a product.

Alives · 10-30-2001, 03:54 PM

do you have pics of your explorer setup? also, the RGB sounds liek you just need to get a HD15 <-> BNC monitor cable and it will work.

Zip-Lock · 10-30-2001, 04:20 PM

This is a cable that takes the VGA to RGB.
http://www.cablemax.com/cablemax/sho...vga-cables.cfm

Alpine uses a propriety RGB connector for their navigation input. A solution would be to buy a replacement navigation input cable and cut it open. Then cut off those BNC connectors off the cable I noted above and match up the pairs with the navigation cable. I do not know what refresh rate and screen resolutions the Alpine specs call for, but that be the next major obstacle.

D2 · 10-30-2001, 04:22 PM

Looking at the installation data-sheet online, it looks like the navigation input connector to the IVA-C800 is the same one used on the NVE-N851A navi unit. I have that navi box connected to the RGB inputs on my Sony XTL-770W monitor through a cable I had to make using the tech manuals from both manufactures. I'll post that pin-out if you are interested. I don't know enough about the IVA-C800 to know if it will switch to the RGB/navi input if there is not a navi unit connected & communicating on that connector.

I have also done a lot of work on the other technical requirements of pumping a PC's VGA output into the video/RGB display for my car PC project. One method is using a device driver on the PC that forces the VGA adaptor into interlaced 640 x 480 video mode. Another is to use a VGA/RGB to NTSC/RGB converter box, there are some that are very cheep. For more info look at http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/

Skippman · 10-30-2001, 04:39 PM

Thanks everyone for their input. I'm extremely familiar with the VGA Breakout cable system. I have a Mitsubishi HDTV at home with a HTPC (Home Theater PC) wired to it via a VGA-to-RGB breakout cable.

My technical questions are more related to the Alpine product than the PC. I feel confident I can configure the PC correctly. 640x480 @ 60Hz is the most likely solution.

What I do need to know is what kind of inputs the Navi interface requires. Just RGB using the G for sync information or RGBHV using seperate Horizontial and Vertical control cables (like my HDTV uses).

moahdib · 10-31-2001, 12:27 AM

I got some extra navigation and cd changer cables for alpine. I believe it's the Ai-Net stuff... anyway if anyone is interested drop me a line.

D2 · 10-31-2001, 03:07 PM

I did check-out the pinnout for the Alpine navi system - display connection. Here is the pin description for the navi out, which corresponds to the old Alpine display input which came with my navi.

1 - DATA GND
2 - VIDEO GND
3 - VOICE GUIDANCE AUDIO
4 - G. CONT (TTL HIGH ON VOICE GUIDANCE)
5 - COMPOSITE VIDEO OUT
6 - IR REMOTE (TTL DATA)
7 - D.CONT/EXTX DATA OUT
8 - RED VIDEO
9 - BLUE VIDEO
10 - VCC +5V
11 - EXRX DATA IN
12 - COMPOSITE TTL SYNC
13 - GREEN VIDEO

Here is a pic of the connector layout.

The IVA-C800 probably needs negative-going composite sync on pin-12 but a composite video signal may be enough to trigger it.

RGB to the display is definitely the way to go for the best picture, stuffing all the display info from a PC onto a small NTSC-rate screen requires some experimentation to get it to look good. To display square pixels on a wide-screen NTSC display, driving the PC at 860 x 486 x 60 interlaced would be best, IMHO.
It would be great if anyone would like to share their experience in this. Maybe another discussion on this topic has been started on this board but I haven't found it yet.

plaiming2 · 10-31-2001, 05:50 PM

I'm not that familiar with ntsc/pal/vga etc..
but i thought it wasn't possible to get 640x480 out of an NTSC video monitor. So how does connecting through the RGB pins get better resolution on these screens? If I can get at least 640x480 i'd definitely go for one. (now if you could retrofit touchscreen that would be really sweet)

-paul

Zip-Lock · 10-31-2001, 09:18 PM

Great work everyone!

D2: Thanks for the pinouts that’s a big help. Do you know how many of those pins actually need to be connected for it to work? Doesn’t an RGB connector also have a Horizontal and Vertical sync pins? Maybe Alpine has that preset and they aren’t needed?

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: ZipLock ]

D2 · 11-01-2001, 02:06 PM

When I finished writing my last post w/ the pinnout info, I realized that I was stating things that might require more involved explanation of my thoughts. Anyways...
First off, the preferred res that I stated was a bit off. I wrote 860 x 486 x 60 interlaced when I should have written 860 x 486 x 30 interlaced, 860 pixels horizontally by 486 lines vertically by 30 interlaced video fields/sec for NTSC. The 860 x 486 figure is what I feel that a PC should output in order to get a correct aspect-ratio video signal to a wide-screen video monitor, the blanking and sync parameters also need to be correct for the fixed-frequency video monitor to properly display the signal. The PAL/SECAM video standard is different, but similar adjustments can be made. There IS a difference between the apparent resolution of VGA & TV displays even with the same resolution settings and that is in part due to video frame interlacing, dot-pitch, and the signal electronics of the display. The small LCD video display that I have seen reduce the resolution even more by internally adding several video lines together before squirting them to the screen. Here are more links with VGA and TV scanning info.
http://www.commspecial.com/6misconc.htm
http://www.epanorama.net/pc/video.html#tv

Going with video RGB is better looking than composite video because the color information has to be stuffed into the same wire as the brightness information on a composite signal and that reduces the sharpness of the picture. Also, with TV RGB, the sync signal is usually a separate composite signal if not overlaid on the green video signal. A VGA adaptor that can produce a TV-rate video signal must also put out a composite sync signal or else a H & V sync combiner circuit must be built to sync the display.
As far as what the Alpine display needs for the RGB input, I hope just the R, G, B, SY, & ground pins. I just don't know if the Alpine display will switch to that input without seeing some activity on the EXTX & EXRX pins. Just like the Sony head-unit AUX inputs won't switch without the Unilink connected.

Skippman · 11-01-2001, 08:48 PM

I talked to some Alpine reps at USAC and IASCA last year. The told me it was theoretically possible. Should have gotten some numbers. If the Alpine does indeed require a feed across those EXTX & EXRX pins it might be possible to either build a small power supply for them or wire them to power pins on the printer port of the PC and use a software switch to keep constant voltage while the PC is on.

Looking at the I-VAC I am curious as to what pins the singal from the buttons on the screen are sent. Would be sweet if I could patch them through the printer port to a WinAMP software plug in. I lack the engineering background, but if someone can draw it I can probably build it.

Skippman · 11-13-2001, 08:43 AM

Is this a dead post or did anyone actually find the pin combinations for the I-VAC?

D2 · 07-02-2002, 02:00 PM

Someone had asked for this picture again-