port20

A question before I get out an o scope has anyone sucessfuly used a kenwood nav RGB input for video?

A kenwood tech support guy told me it is a standard RGB input 600x800 Fv=15khz Fh=60hz

does anyone have any info on the kenwood Nav data buss?

here are some roumors from the same tech guy

the kenwood nav unit hardware is an Industrial PC using standard hardware
( this is not realy a roumor it is fact industry insiders like me have known this for years the Alpine has standard IPC hardware as well and the Pioneer is said to be 60% IPC ) the O.S. he heard is said to be a version of windows ce but he belives it is most likly a version of Linux witch is what I have been told as well

thinkin what I am thinkin

If the hardware is standard pc hardware than maybe we can just plug the data into a USB or SERIAL port and load drivers I say this because it is possable that the data is one way I have not been able think of a reason why the nav would need to send data back to the head unit if the data is one way then why wouldn't kenwood use off the shelf hardware and software
it saves them time and money

what do you think

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DarquePervert

Good luck.

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bagwellfive

Kenwood's "RGB" is used for data such as touchscreen and nav controls. The actual video is sent through a composite video cable. A Kenwood NAV unit has an RGB (kinda looks like an S-Video or PS-2 cable) AND a composite video cable sent to the lcd head unit.

just fyi...

port20

bagwellfive your wrong and seem to be uneducated about the standards and hardware you are speeking of

the kenwood nav does have a RGB output and the kenwood monitors also have an RGB input the nav also does have a composite video out for use with a composite monitor if you are trying to save a few bucks

RGB is short for RGBVH witch means red green blue vertical sync and horizontal sync there are many variants of RGB pc VGA is one of them no data or control signals can be sent through an RGB signal

I am posting this thread to see if anyone knows if I can just wire up a custom cable or if I will need a converter to convert from one RGB standard to another I am asking to save time and not have to do a lot of testing to find out

the cable you say kinda looks like an S-Video or PS-2 cable is a custom cable with a standard 13 pin din plug at both ends the cable has wires for RGBVH, analog audio, power up signal, common ground, and control data, and a few extra unused wires

Just FYI...

bagwellfive

faakoff w/that 'uneducated' bull****.

that 13-pin data din plug has been used for years as for things like CD changers. The only thing that remotely resembles that pinout while carrying video signals was made for old-school Atari's. Having barked up this tree before, I've found several different pinout diagrams that may be relevant.

1. Audio
2. -
3. -
4. -
5. -
6. Green
7. Red
8. GND (Audio)
9. H-sync
10. Blue
11. -
12. V-sync
13. GND (Video)


and


1 AO Audio Out
2 CVIDEO Composite Video
3 CS Clock Select
4 MD Monochrome Detect / Clock In
5 AI Audio In
6 G Green
7 R Red
8 +12V +12 VDC (520ST has GND)
9 HSYNC Horizontal Sync
10 B Blue
11 MVIDEO Monochrome Video
12 VSYNC Vertical Sync
13 GND Ground

the most relevant to your application would be the first of two pinout diagrams since the second dwells into proprietary atari functions.

hope this helps.

bagwellfive

http://atariweb.paraisocz.com/13din_13din.htm

http://atariweb.paraisocz.com/13din_rca.htm

port20

I got VGA video on a Kenwood DDX 7015

tonight I got a Kenwood nav cable witch I promptly cut up
here's what I learned so far

blue = +5v power up signal
gray = seems to be same as blue
purple = +5v nav turn on signal
orange & pink wires seem to be data they spike to .2 volts DC when the screen is touched I need to do some testing with an O scope to be sure

there are two gray sheilded cables inside the nav cable the small one has 2 wires in side

white = I think is audio left +
red = I think is audio right +
sheild = ground

the bigger shielded cable is the RGB signal cable

yellow = green
white = blue
red = red
green = Fh
shield = ground for all signals
compatable Fh = 60hz only
tested at 640x480 32 bit true color 60hz

there is no vertical sync input wire

the video needs some kind of converter I am getting a double image and it is not centered at all but the small text was quite readable it was a little fuzzy but no more fuzzy than my old 7" VGA screen at 800x600 I think the fuz will go away after a little video scaling

what you guys think




I will mess around with it some more when I have some time

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hd54321

That's tight! I just installed a Pioneer AVIC-88DVD. These nav units are definitely computers. My unit has a RISC processor and 64mb of ram. It even has a PCMCIA slot.

The Pioneer RGB cable is 26pin and when connected to the Pioneer AVD-W6210 has a very sharp picture. The RGB cable carries video, audio and data (touchscreen and button input).

You must have a small pile of cash lying around if you're tearing up your RGB cable. I know for Pioneer's there cables cost $75+,

hd54321

The DDX7015 is 480x234. Nearly all navigation system screens are like this (except for the new Eclipse Dual DIN AVX units and the Alpine IVA-D910).

I'll be damned if you could get input from a computer to look half-decent...good luck and I want more pics!

-HD

port20

I don't have a lot of cash I am a mobile electronics installer so head units cables and amps are all dirt cheep for me I just have to ask for it sometimes I ask hard very hard!

The DDX7015 is 480x234. Nearly all navigation system screens are like this

that is not true the older screens were the DDX7015's lcd has a native res of 600x800 all newer Kenwood nav screens are 600x800 but I have a feeling that the RGB video controller in it may only go as high as 640x480 I should know for sure in a few days

Alpine has a HD screen comming out in a few months and kenwood will by next august there booth said to be 720p

hd54321

Umm, I think you're wrong...the DDX7015 has a native res of 480x234 I'm pretty sure Crutchfield has the right specs. I bet if you open the Kenwood manual on this unit it would say the same thing.

-HD

bagwellfive

awesome work

port20

I think Crutchfield is wrong about the screen having a 480x234 native res I think the nav puts out 480x234 video it wouldn't be the first time Crutchfield had the wrong spec's

I say this because I install kenwood navs all day and the video from the Kenwood nav does look like 480x234
lso tonight I learned a lot more about the RGB input on my DDX7015 it's an RGBS input and from messing around with some video scalers converters and laptops I am sure the vertical res is 480 so think that would make the horizontal res around 720 I need to look up the math for 16:9 screens to be sure (it's been a while) the sync freq is fixed at 60hz

my only issue left to work out as far as video is possition the video is not centered on the screen it's a bit low and none of the scalers converters or laptops I have laying around have any adjustment for this problem

I got a guy shipping me a 12v DC video converter with possition adjustments but it won't be here till 11th of october and there is some assembly required because it is an industrial unit I should have a useable video input by the 12th

in the mean time I need to get my hands on a 2 ch digital data loger so figure out if it is possable to interface with the touchscreen or atleast pass the IR data to the pc from the DDX7015

by the way the picture realy is very good it's about 5% away from being as good as a non touchscreen VGA screen like the Xanarc

I might be on to something here I mean check this out what choices do you have if you have to use a flip out screen

not many good ones the only good solution is the new xanarc and it leaves a lot to be desired

Alpine already has a motorized flip out touchscreen that is only a display for nav and video and it has a low HD res sometime next year it will be replaced by a true HD res unit witch is said to be 720p in pc terms thats 1280x720 it looks like we will all have access to top quality motorized touchscreens in just a year or two

hd54321

That's awesome! I really want to see some pictures... in the meantime, how do you explain this? This is straight from the horses mouth.

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port20

Ok hold up first I will say this I did the math if the v res is 480 than it has a h res of 720 being that the screen has a 16:9 aspect ratio

ok think about this for a min so you can understand why I am stating the res is 720x480 and that Kenwood and Crutchfield are giving out the wrong spec's

the max res of a composite video signal is 640x480 if the native res was only 480x234 then the video would look the same with eathier a composite input or a rgb input

I have tested with both signals and with a composite input you can't read the small text easly at all

but with the rgb input it is not a problem as I said before the video is realy good on scale of 1 to 100 1 being a composite screen and 100 being a xanarc without a touch panal I give it a 95 it's the same quality as my tview vga screen from DWW

at 640x480 only about 4/5 of the screen is being used horizontaly and all of it is being used verticaly

at 600x800 even less of the screen is being used in booth directions this means that the rgb input does not have any video scaler if it did then the input signal would fill the entire screen at any res this is not the case

also if the native res was only 480x234 then the display would only show part of the signal at 640x480 it would look zoomed in on a spot of the screen

because at 640x480 all of the screen is being used verticaly I have found the native vertical res of 480 and because the screen is a 16:9 aspect ratio screen that makes the horizontal res 720

because we know that there is no video scaler and the vertical res of 480 fills the screen and that a higher res fills less of the screen and a lower res is bigger than the screen we know that the native res is 720x480

I don't know why Kenwood and Crutchfield are giving out the wrong spec's but I do know

that monkeys are smarter than horses

I know you still want to see some good screen shots before you will belive me I have only been able to work on it for about an hour a day late at night so I have skiped documenting my progress but I will take some pictures on sunday and post them here for you

have you got any advice on taking a picture of a video display?

cars electrioncs and fabrication I know but camras I am not so good with

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