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Old 01-26-2006, 02:41 PM   #1
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Alternative backlights - ideas and successful installs

Hi. This is my first post here, but I've read through 100% of the both "LCD Backlight Upgrade" threads (the second one took FOREVER, but good job on the research). I would like to start a related (but similar) thread for people who would like to upgrade their backlight, but do not care about keeping the original LCD bezel intact; ie people who are integrating the LCD into their dash, and have extra room behind it. Obviously a couple types of LCD's will be excluded from being used, as they have ribbons which get in the way behind the LCD.

I know that turbocad6 did such an upgrade with his LED install (amazing BTW !!), but I don't know of any other people. Some people have bought expensive off-the-shelf transflective or high-bright LCD's, but I want to look at upgrades.

I have a text file I compiled about various lighting technology, which includes a couple questions and some ideas I am tossing around. I'm going to paste that into a seperate post so 1) other people might benefit from it, and 2) so people can correct any mistakes I made, which I'm sure exist.

But please, if you have done any of these types of upgrades yourself, or know someone who has, let me know what it involved, and if it works, and post pictures (if you have them). Even people who have done LCD projector projects might be useful for info.

cheers

sean
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:52 PM   #2
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Some Pics :





Could see the rest here :
Lilliput Backlight Upgrade

But haven't much more time to continue.
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:56 PM   #3
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My text file

By the way, a few lines of this are direct quotes from pages I found on the web, I'm not claiming that everything here is my own writing.

**********
(1) GAS DISCHARGE LIGHTING
**********

(-)General Information
* Plasma physics is the study of ionized gases.
* Plasma = a gas composed largely of ions and free electrons, all moving freely (creates a path for an electrical current)
* Discharge types: glow discharge, arc discharge, dielectric barrier discharge, high impact discharge
* In a gas discharge, such as a fluorescent lamp, current causes resistance to decrease (negative impedance).

(-) CFL
(=) Compact flourescent lamp
* Meant to replace incandescent bulbs of same size, screws into standard socket and includes built-in ballast

(-) CCFL / CCFT
(=) Cold cathode flourescent lamp / tube
* cold cathode lamp's electrodes operate at 400 degrees F
* The interior surface of the cathodes are capable of producing secondary electrons at a ratio greater than unity (amplification) upon electron impact. Initially, a high voltage is applied across the tube, which accelerates a small number of naturally existing electrons and ions to the cathode, where they collide and release more electrons, causing an avalanche effect, and introducing plasma into the tube. The voltage can be turned down once a current through the tube is established, and the above-unity electron generation of the cathode will sustain the current.
* Operating principle is known as "Glow Discharge": In its simplest form, it consists of two electrodes in a cell held at low pressure. The cell is typically filled with argon. A potential of several hundred volts is applied between the two electrodes. A small population of atoms within the cell is initially ionized through random processes (collisions between atoms or with alpha particles, for example). The ions (which are positively charged) are driven towards the cathode by the electric potential, and the electrons are driven towards the anode by the same potential. The initial population of ions and electrons collides with other atoms, ionizing them. As long as the potential is maintained, a population of ions and electrons remains.
* If using multiple lamps in parallel, driving current of all lamps must be in sync (usually done by having one single inverter designed for driving multiple outputs)
* ignition electrodes NOT made of filaments (ie tungsten etc); high striking voltage overcomes need for "hot" cathode
* moderately good efficiency (about 15% less than HCFL's), moderately low heat
* about 15% longer life than HCFL's (under CORRECT operation conditions); but dim over time
* lower max luminance than HCFT's, due to less max tolerable current
* may flicker when cold + low life when hot
* require high running voltage, higher ignition voltage (task of inverter)

(-) HCFT / HCFL
(=) Hot cathode flourescent tube / lamp
* "Standard" / "household" flourescent tubes
* Hot cathode flourescent lamp's electrodes operate at over 1500 degrees F
* current running through the electrodes "boils off" electrons (technically, thermionic emission), ....
* Note: Instant start fluorescent lamps start as cold-cathode devices but soon localized heating of the fine tungsten wire cathodes causes them to operate as ordinary hot cathode lamps. (very high initial voltage on the electrode causes an excess of electrons, leading to a corona discharge; this isn't completely the same mechanism used in CCFL's, but it doesn't involve heating a filament, so it is still "cold")

(-) EEFL
(=) External/Exterior electrode flourescent lamp
* Electrodes are completely outside of lamp
* Most Asian companies provide very poorly written descriptions of EEFL operation: "This lamp has its electrode outside of the lamp. It's quite opposite from that of general fluorescent lamp. The light source of this lamp is Plasma which is derived by External electrode of electric field inside the lamp." -- WTF?
* First of all, the operation IS quite different from both hot and cold cathode, BUT NOT in that its "light source is plasma" -- all the major gas discharge lamps employ a tube filled with an ionized gas and free electrons (ie, a plasma) to excite atoms (usually mercury for our purposes) which then emit UV light. Second, "by External electrode of electric field..." is just plain nonsensical and bad english, the electric field doesn't "possess" an electrode. Then, they are mixing in "external electric field of... inside the ..."; what is inside, and what is out? My (completely guessing !!) view is that perhaps it works similarly to a MOSFET (in a basic way, don't push the analogy too far): applying an electric field across the capacitances (ext electrode, glass dielectric, gasses) at each end frees up charge carriers (maybe by accumulating them on the surface, then a corona discharge?), and there is a DC offset between the sides which causes the free carriers to flow through a "channel".
* electrode is placed outside glass tube, but when a high voltage is placed on the electrode, capacitive coupling causes dielectric barrier discharge, introducing plasma into the tube and exciting mercury atoms, etc.

(-) Dielectric barrier discharge is then defined as:
* Dielectric-barrier discharges (DBD’s) comprise a specific class of high-voltage, ac, gaseous discharges that typically operate in the near-atmospheric pressure range. Their defining feature is the presence of dielectric layers that make it impossible for charges generated in the gas to reach the conducting electrode surfaces. With each half-cycle of the driving oscillation, the voltage applied across the gas exceeds that required for breakdown, and the formation of narrow discharge filaments initiates the conduction of electrons toward the more positive electrode. As charge accumulates on the dielectric layer(s) at the end(s) of each filament, the voltage drop across the filament is reduced until it falls below the discharge-sustaining level, whereupon the discharge is extinguished.
* Also known as "silent discharge"

(-) EIFL
(=) External Internal Fluorescent Lamp (hybrid)
* See US Patent application 0050127839

(-) FFL
(=) Flat Fluorescent Lamp
* See, for example, US Patent 5850122 "Planar flourescent lamp"
* See Osram Planon, 1,850 lm @ 68 Watts, about £200 for 18.1" model in 2003, this is a DBD device
* http://www.osram.com/products/genera...nt/planon.html

(-) CCFFL
(=) Cold Cathode Flat Fluorescent Lamp
* similar to above...

(-) Induction lamp
* Changing magnetic field induces an electric field in the gas... etc

(-) HID
(=) High impact discharge
* mercury vapor and sodium vapor lights are frequently used as street lamps and as outdoor lighting for stadiums
* usually slow startup time
* xenon can improve startup time
* Metal halides - Chemicals categorized as metal-halides (such as lithium iodide) are added inside the bulb envelope to improve the color of the light. For example, lithium adds a strong red color to the mix of colors produced by the light bulb.

**********
(2) SEMICONDUCTOR LIGHTING
**********

(-) EL lamp
(=) Electroluminescent lamp
* The EL lamp is essentially a capacitor structure with phosphor sandwiched between the electrodes. Application of an AC voltage generates a changing field within the phosphor which causes the phosphor to emit light.

(-) LED
(=) Light emitting diode
* lower than average efficiency, but technology is improving
* high output LEDs may require significant cooling

**********
(3) OTHER LIGHTING
**********

(-) OLED
(=) Organic light emitting diode
* developing technology

(-) LEP
(=) Light emitting polymer

(-) PES
(=) Photo-enforced stratification
* "painted on" LCDs, future technology

**********
(4) CONVENTIONAL LIGHTING
**********

(-) Incadescent / Filament
* Tungsten filament inside glass bulb

(-) Halogen
* Tungsten filament inside small quartz enclosure/bulb
* Bulb filled with halogen gas, which can combine with tungsten vapor as the tungsten "evaporates" off the filament, and later redeposit the tungsten (ie, recycles it for long life)

**********
MISC LIGHTING
**********

(-) Inverter / Ballast
* The term "ballast" used in fluorescent lighting applies to the device that controls the lamp current at the proper operating parameter for the lamp, provides proper open circuit voltage to start the lamp reliably without excessively damaging the cathodes, and, if applicable, provides the proper cathode heating voltage for rapid start lamps
* For conventional "hot cathode" fluorescent lamps, there are three main categories: Magnetic -- energy efficient (core-coil capacitor), Electronic - solid state high frequency, Hybrid -- magnetic with electronic cathode cutout.
* Most common design types for CCFL inverters: Royer (cheap), full bridge (almost all laptops, good for varying DC input), half bridge, push-pull (many advantages for TV's w/ stable DC input)

(-) Light measurement terms:
* Luminous intensity (candela / cd) - energy emitted by light in a given direction (non-infinitesimal...?)
* Luminosity - DENSITY of luminous intensity in a given direction (cd/m^2), independent of distance (surface area increases w/ distance)
* Luminous flux / luminous power = flux through a surface of luminous intensity (lumen = lm)

* Light temperature - The Kelvin temperature equivalent is used to describe the lamp's colour (has to due with spectrum of light radiated by a "blackbody", see any stat mech / thermodynamics book). Lamps generally vary from about 2500K, which is quite yellow through to 7000K, which is considerably bluish. The temperature of balanced white is about 5500K.

Last edited by spmclaugh; 01-26-2006 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:57 PM   #4
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My text file part 2

BTW, I took out a couple links to companies at the advice of someone else, so that they don't get bombared with inquiries (I might end up putting them back, I don't think it'll be a problem...)

**********
QUESTIONS
**********

It is clear why seperate CCFL's cannot be run simultaneously with seperate inverters, BUT why should they not be run in parallel, off ONE single inverter, assuming it can handle the total required output (lamps should be approximately equal impedance, capacitors could be added before each lamp to set the AC impedance...)? It definitely can be done, but some sources say that it shouldn't, because the light output of each bulb will not be equal. Why should it differ by more than a negligible amount? Also, some sources mention that if multiple CCFL's are run off one inverter output, if one tube breaks, all the tubes will shut off. Why should this be true? Won't the broken tube just act as an open circuit, no different than if you connected a short wire to each side of any other bulb and left the wire dangling in the air?

One source says DBD lamps are mercury-free; is that just a possibility, or is that always the case?

Does the term "electrodeless lamp" refer to induction lamps? A couple sources appeared to use the term towards EEFL's, but I don't think that's what it means.

**********
POSSIBLE BACKLIGHT CHOICES
**********

EL Lamps
* 20 - 50 cd/m^2, too dim

Flat fluorescent
* Osram planon: 5200-11000 cd/m^2 depending on size and inverter choice
* Expensive, but not too bad compared to alternatives
* Would have to use at least a 10.4" screen, but might be OK
* Can't locate vendors, but probably extremely expensive

* http://(removed link for now)
* need to contact company for pricing

Flat cold cathode
* http://(removed link for now)
* $175 for 4" x 5" model, for example
* Need to contact company for cd/m^2 output

* http://(removed link for now)
* need to contact company for pricing

EEFL
* Too hard to purchase tubes w/ inverters

LED's
* Luxeon 1W's are a possibility. Probably don't really need water cooling, but some type of ventilation is needed.

CCFL's
* Since my project doesn't involve keeping the original LCD bezel, a direct-lit backlight consisting of a grid of tubes would be easy. Can be basically any size slightly longer than the panel width (or height). Choose inverter first, then match bulbs.
* Could also upgrade the original edge-lit backlight by doubling/tripling bulbs depthwise (ie: resulting in a thicker backlight / total LCD)

HID
* Sounds extreme, but may work...

Halogen
* Would need significant cooling, but then again, so would LED. Probably won't use this, but will at least look into it.

Artist Tracing Table
* May be able to rip one of these open for parts such as diffuser, at least
* Some models might actually be usable directly, they make them in halogen, conventional fluorescent, etc. Would just need to modify power supply to make dimmable.
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Old 01-26-2006, 04:16 PM   #5
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Re: coucouillu LED lilliput upgrade

coucouillu,

nice work so far, what is your next move going to be? do you think you'll be able to even the light out a bit more with a few extra LEDs or a different diffuser? what types of LED's are those? (you mentioned Osram Golden Dragons in a previous post, I believe) How much did they cost you?

sean
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Old 01-26-2006, 09:58 PM   #6
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re: driving multiple ccfl's off one inverter output

Hi again. Sorry to keep posting back-to-back, but...

I think I may have understood the answers to one of my own questions, and was wondering if someone could confirm it. It is regarding driving multiple CCFL's off one common inverter output. Even if the CCFL tubes are 99% identical, and each one individually would have almost equal impedance under exactly the same driving conditions, you have to remember that the impedance is a function of AC frequency, and more importantly, current through the lamp. Since the impedance is NEGATIVE, ie it decreases with increasing current, one lamp in the parallel group can "run away"!! If it gets slightly more current through it, its current will keep increasing, "stealing" the current of the other tubes, until it is basically a short (current limited only by inverter's ability to limit its output), and the other tubes lose their arc.

Another issue would be during striking. Once one tube lit up, the inverter might think (unless it was carefully designed) that it is now OK to reduce its output to the (lower) running voltage.

Both of these issues could be solved by putting a moderately sized capacitor before each tube, so that it limits current moreso than the impedance of the tube itself. This would also allow for the inverter design to be much more primitive (although dimming might become an issue).

jcd? scouse? any others?
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Old 01-27-2006, 10:41 AM   #7
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I'm working on a luxeon backlight similar to that of turbocad6's. I have gotten alot of info and help from him, and assuming everything goes well with it then within the next probably month I will have a successful lilli (without bezel) backlight upgrade with photoresistor dimming built in (or a knob, or a pic, or all of the above). Only catch is that it will need cooling... so that means either fans in back of it in the dash(noisy), or my method... liquid cooling(virtually silent).

The liquid cooling is a daunting task for most, but I think it will be a snap once I get all the parts in. Its alittle more in depth, but if you have a few extra inches behind the dash to mount a small radiator with some free air to go through... thats definitely the way to go.

I would be willing to put together an "upgrade kit" that people could just buy then piece it together themselves, or if and major if there, I had time I might be willing to build them for some that dont' want to take the time or dont feel they are capable.

Course this is all dependent on turbocad6's permission, cause alot of the info I did get from him, and its not right for me to turn it around without asking him. Also rely's on it working for me... I know it worked for him, but he had a bit of a different setup... I have a convertible and light is a serious problem for me, and I have a touch screen, he didn't. But, I also have more led's per surface area(I think) then he did as well.
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:24 AM   #8
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Re: dmcdlrn LED install

sounds interesting, good luck. i agree with you that it's probably a good idea to use more cooling than just vents (and the principle of hot air rising). but i bet you could rig up a system using a closed box around the LCD + LED arrangement, and intake/outake piping, and then use a remote, slow-spinning fan and end up with very little noise (mostly air hissing through the pipe, which could be damped out pretty easily). it might be better + easier to buy an off-the-shelf pump (ready to be hooked to a certain diameter pipe) than to buy a fan and try to rig something up yourself.

you could also put a pipe that goes into the outside airstream in such a way that it forces air through the pipe while the vehicle is moving. But I wouldn't rely on just that, unless I was sure that air would still naturally flow when the vehicle was stopped. and with any considerable amount of piping in the intake/outakes, I think very little air would naturally flow. I'll probably use the LCD while the vehicle is not moving more than when it is, so I'd rather be confidant that it can perform in any situation. plus you'd have to worry about moisture, debris, etc getting into your LCD assembly. I'd still like to have the hot exhaust air go outside, and I think that with a decent air pump, it could take air from the cabin and force it outside (most vehicles aren't very airtight, so we don't have to worry about negative pressure buildup in the cabin...). the alternative would be to go out and buy a cheap air intake from autozone or whatever, and hook that up to the intake (placed under the hood or under the car).

liquid cooling is probably about the same amount of work as the way I suggested, and you get to use smaller pipes with liquid cooling. probably a little higher cost, but not too much more, if I had to buy an air filter and air pump, plus the piping, plus build an airtight box around the LCD.
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:58 AM   #9
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ya, well, two things... the air cooling would be loud in any event... cause as soon as you open the closed pipe system to take air out of the enclosure your going to end up with the volume (obviously less) as a central vac... it will make a fair amount of noise, or it won't be strong enough to exhaust enough air. Second... I don't want an open system pulling air through my lcd... it will be a huge pile of leaves, pine needles, dust and bugs. The liquid cooling is more expensive up front for sure, but you can buy computer cooling kits for not terrible numbers, and adapt it... I plan on using a thermaltake auquarious II or whatever it is, and instead of the cpu block I will use a 3.5" hard drive cooling block attatched to the aluminum thermal plate at the very back of my Luxeon array. Then if I want, I can in series or parallel rig up vga block to cool my drivers and or any other component that I choose for only the price of the block and the pipe.
The radiator for the system doesn't have to be under the dash... I feel it would be more practical, but you could put it in the trunk or under the hood. I just worry about the extended out cables... they will slow the rate so you would have to oversize the hoses to keep the flow rate up if you went too far.

Maintenence should be pretty straight forward... have the reservoir in the glove box or something, and once a month check its level and add if necessary... other then that your golden. Oh, they also have temperature units that you can hook right up to them and to your computer so that if you want to it cool more or less based on temp it can be automated. Seems 100% ideal to me! Just alittle piping, and those liquid cooling systems are designed for a processor that puts out more btu then that whole array of led's will so your even better there.
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Old 01-27-2006, 01:39 PM   #10
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Quote: Originally Posted by spmclaugh
coucouillu,

nice work so far, what is your next move going to be? do you think you'll be able to even the light out a bit more with a few extra LEDs or a different diffuser? what types of LED's are those? (you mentioned Osram Golden Dragons in a previous post, I believe) How much did they cost you?

sean

I will try to determine how much LED are needed for good back lighting.
I think I will try in the corner of the screen. I have a lot of work left to make it better.

LEDs :
Golden Dragon white 21lm (10.000mcd), 120°, Osram 8€


HERE-->Golden Dragon :
Manufacturer: Osram
Manufacturer Part No.: LWW5SG
Luminous Intensity (typ.): 10.000mcd
Power Dissapation: 1W
Luminous Flux (typ.): 21 lm
Viewing Angle: 120°
Color Temperature (typ.): 6500K
Forward Voltage: 3,8V
LED Current (If): 350mA
Housing: waterclear
Material: InGaN
Operating Temperature: -40°C - 80°C


Power Suppy :
High-power constant-current source KONLUX DC 350mA 14,99€


HERE-->Constant Current Power Supply :
nput: 6-24 V DC (reverse polarity protected)
Output: 350 mA DC (short-circuit-proof)
Drop: 1,8 Volt
Efficiency: 85 - 93 %
Temperature range: -40°C bis +85°C
Dimension: (LxWxH) 26,5mm x 23,5mm x 7mm
Weight: 4 gramms
Real current consumption
Highly precise by integrated circuit (<3% tolerance over the complete voltage and temperature range)
Thermal overload protection

Last edited by coucouillu; 01-27-2006 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:47 PM   #11
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is there a reason you went with those type led's? The luxeons put out more then twice the luman per watt then that... I think for a 7-8" you will need at least 30 of those... probably more like 40. I could be wrong though.
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Old 01-28-2006, 03:24 AM   #12
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Quote: Originally Posted by dmcdlrn
is there a reason you went with those type led's? The luxeons put out more then twice the luman per watt then that... I think for a 7-8" you will need at least 30 of those... probably more like 40. I could be wrong though.

As you can see on the picture below, Golden Dragon are very tiny.
My probleme is that I have an indash screen. So I can't use LUMEN for my solution (they are to much big)
So my Backlight upgrade aim to replace the original CCFL with an other technology which won't take more space than the original. These LED have their width equal to the width of the Hitachi screen width. So they could be easily (all is relative) integrated in the screen.

I have now to determine how much LED are needed and where they have to be placed to diffuse better.

You should have noticed that they have 120° diffsion and the power supply could be "dimmered" or "dimmed" via TTL signal.

I know that they are less brighter than Lumen...that my second problem.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by coucouillu; 01-28-2006 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 05:45 PM   #13
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is it equal 120 degree dispersion? I think they will have to be really really tight together to not have hot spots if you plan on fitting it in the same space as the original backlight.
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Old 01-28-2006, 11:04 PM   #14
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Oh, the one thing I forgot to add to my list of "potential options" is simply upgrading the inverter, and using the LCD's original CCFL tubes.

Comon, I was hoping that by now someone would have posted pictures of some crazy 12V 1 million candlepower spotlight install ! Seriosly though, I'd love to see some overkill installs using a HID bulb, halogen, or something like that.
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Old 01-29-2006, 10:35 AM   #15
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Uh, if you do see them, the persons car has likely caught on fire or melted their screen.... you stick a halogen bulb in the dash there its going to do some damage, or its not going to be bright enough. I have been on this forum for quite some time now, long enough to see alot of "innovative solutions" come and go, but there is a reason they always go... the ccfl people couldn't ge the proper inverters with diming ability in a small enough area... led's, well, thats been done, and at this point, I have concluded its the most efficient way to do it.

I myself received my luxeons yesterday, and have started the upgrade, and holy hell them are bright, and they really don't put off that much heat... I'm thinking I may not need liquid cooling after all.

oh, and coucouillu... I might suggest going transflective in your case... I didn't catch exactly what you are trying to do, but replacing side illuminating backlighting with direct backlighting without being able to back the led's up some I can't see working unless you litterally make a blanket of those led's in there... which would be really really expensive. There is a company in California here that will retrofit lcd's with bigger backlights and transflective systems as well as put an anti-glare surface on them for fairly cheep... were talking like 300 - 400 or they sell fully done screens for not much more, but you allready have your screen solution. Just a thought.
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