call for more open collaboration

kev000 · 06-18-2007, 05:34 PM

From my experience in this forum, the Linux-in-the-car community though small, has no shortage of talent. Many of us are developers of some sort and have lots of knowledge about open source and Linux. That said, I think we have an interesting opportunity to really show off just why we choose open-source and Linux. I'm sure all of you are aware of the many many Windows applications for CarPCs. You may also have noticed that Linux doesn't have a clear and viable solution for the same. This is something that myself and I'm sure many of you want to change.

I want to start an open discussion on how we can better focus our skills to solve the problem. My goal is to create the the ultimate solution for In-car-entertainment, navigation, and information. The goal is to show people just how ridiculous using anything other than Linux in a carPC really is. XP embedded? are you serious? Look at what Linux and open source offers!

I've been working with others on Linux ICE and nGhost. Maybe you don't like the direction it's going and that's why you are working on something else. Let's talk about the direction. If you think that SilverWolf2 should be shipped with Linux ICE instead of nGhost, than lets evaluate that. If you think that SilverWolf2 and nGhost should merge, I don't know, maybe it's worth talking about. If all of us have the same goal, why don't we work together?

Many of you are working on separate projects that are helping the goal. I love to hear about how navit is improving and how bluetooth phone integration is developing. This things can be thrown into ICE and make one hell of a carPC distro.

The power of open source is the communtiy. If I'm out of line, let the flames fly. If not, let's do something great!
[/END RANT]

awsjr · 06-18-2007, 08:40 PM

I agree with you. Linux in general needs better direction. The Linux CarPC software is a prime example. I am not a developer but I am a designer with a little experience in interface design. So while I can’t contribute code I can make things pretty and test software. Maybe those of us interested should formalize things…I don’t know how but it seams like a good idea.

blk02si · 06-18-2007, 09:14 PM

To tell you the truth I think we need to focus on building an automotive based GUI to run on linux. Having your software layers set up like windows (i.e. kernel>os gui>frontend) is not a great idea. It needs to be kernel>frontend. Instead of KDE or gnome or any other window managers out there we need to create a media specific, TS friendly, GUI that runs on the linux kernel. I would love to help program something like this but I'm not really sure where to start. I know I can install a basic kernel so it only uses a shell and commands. To start off I propose we strip gnome from the LinuxICE build and start from scratch. To start we just need to create a simple, robust menu driven GUI that is capable of sending commands to mplayer, simple file browsing, and embedding an open source GPS app. MP3 and GPS is what 90% of carPC users are using 90% of the time. I would love to see something hardcore like a CDE interface to start, the eye candy can come later on, first we need a rock solid base to start from.

I really want to see this project take life and I know I can help with it.

This is coming from someone who does have a serious XP embedded build, but runs an open source frontend because he knows the power and flexibility of open source. Might even be better to start with something like Damn Small Linux and go from there.

Just throwing some ideas out there and It may take awhile to come up with the solution but like you said anything is possible with open source.

Wonder if there is a way to port RR over to linux?

kev000 · 06-18-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by blk02si

To tell you the truth I think we need to focus on building an automotive based GUI to run on linux. Having your software layers set up like windows (i.e. kernel>os gui>frontend) is not a great idea. It needs to be kernel>frontend. Instead of KDE or gnome or any other window managers out there we need to create a media specific, TS friendly, GUI that runs on the linux kernel. I would love to help program something like this but I'm not really sure where to start. I know I can install a basic kernel so it only uses a shell and commands. To start off I propose we strip gnome from the LinuxICE build and start from scratch. To start we just need to create a simple, robust menu driven GUI that is capable of sending commands to mplayer, simple file browsing, and embedding an open source GPS app. MP3 and GPS is what 90% of carPC users are using 90% of the time. I would love to see something hardcore like a CDE interface to start, the eye candy can come later on, first we need a rock solid base to start from.

Linux ICE's goal eventually is to run kernel->X11->[LightWindowManager]->Frontend. Right now its Kernel->X11->XFCE->Frontend. The reason for XFCE currently is to compensate for the things that nGhost currently lacks (network stuff, etc). ICE was never meant to be a true embedded distro, but a more flexible distro that made it easier for the devs to maintain and flexible enough for most hardware platforms.

Optimally, a person would want to build his own hardware specific kernel, and then build on top of that. However that wouldn't be very good as a general solution.

We have looked at matchbox which is super lightweight and very touchscreen friendly. It was the WM in the 8mg LinuxBIOS+X11 complete OS with gui on a BIOS flash ROM. matchbox will require a fair amount of customization for our needs and thus hasn't been included in the latest build of ICE.

Quote:

I really want to see this project take life and I know I can help with it.

This is coming from someone who does have a serious XP embedded build, but runs an open source frontend because he knows the power and flexibility of open source. Might even be better to start with something like Damn Small Linux and go from there.

Just throwing some ideas out there and It may take awhile to come up with the solution but like you said anything is possible with open source.

Wonder if there is a way to port RR over to linux?

I don't think we need to port anything from the windows world. We just need to pick what we want in a frontend and build it into an existing Linux frontend (like nGhost

).

blk02si · 06-18-2007, 11:34 PM

good call on the X11 software layer, not going to get very far without that. I was not aware that XFCE was running on linuxICE I thought it was gnome! Sure has the same feel to it.
Maybe its wishful thinking to have a frontend run directly on the X11 layer, but can see from a programming perspective that running a frontend app on top of an existing lightweight window manager is a much faster/easier way to go.

I'm still feeling polar about nGhost, It launched great but I could not get it to play media. Its somewhat confusing and I could not find a way to browse or load media.

Also I have a test machine with a touchscreen set up specifically for testing and building this distro so I can give feedback on any build that is put out there. I managed to successfully build RoadNav on your last build. Which is a GPS app developed enough for good tracking but the directions part is terrible.

I would not mind assuming the job of testing, adding and configuring apps to run on this.

kev000 · 06-19-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

I would not mind assuming the job of testing, adding and configuring apps to run on this.

sounds great.

There are many ways that other (non-coders) can contribute. For example barb3tta (aka sanzoghenzo) has been very active in optimizing Linux ICE and providing documentation on what he did. I've used his howto's and will use them in the current and future builds of LICE. His stuff is all over the wiki.

blk02si · 06-21-2007, 05:46 PM

LinuxICE - fiesty.iso is running on dedicated hardware right now. Let me know if your still running this distro or have newer code available. Maybe you can walk me through nghost over IM or something.

thylacine222 · 06-22-2007, 08:34 AM

If I might add, WindowMaker is a really light and I would imagine very touchscreen-friendly window manager. Here's a screenshot to demonstrate.
It also has support for Widgets, which you can also see in that screenshot.

thylacine222 · 06-22-2007, 08:47 AM

Note this is not my screenshot, so anything on there isn't mine

Edit: I think my screenshot is going to be up soon, the mods have to approve the post first.

kev000 · 06-22-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

LinuxICE - fiesty.iso is running on dedicated hardware right now. Let me know if your still running this distro or have newer code available. Maybe you can walk me through nghost over IM or something.

Sure, I am kev000x on yahoo messanger. There are very recent subversion snapshots of nGhost 0.95 that I'd be happy to help you get up and running.

KaZeR · 06-25-2007, 06:47 AM

Same thing here, i'm aiming at building the ultimate carputer frontend. And it has to be Open Sourced, of course

I'm also interested in any feedback for Navit. SDL gui can be grabbed here : http://www.kazer.org/navit/navit_sdl.tgz

I'd be happy to help integrating it into any other frontend.

Let me know!

wirelessdreamer · 06-25-2007, 10:22 AM

one reason many people choose linux for a car pc is because its open, flexable, and reliable, but when you try to write a program that does it all, not matter how well the program is written it looses the flexabiliy of linux.

Maybe a user lives in a country your built in map program doesn't support and they have a seperate program that works fine they want to run, by basing your distro of x and a lightweight wm they can run an external program to handle whatever they want, this is the approach the team working on nghost is taking, and definately what i have an interest in using, and hopefully finding the time to contribute some.

Silverwolf has made some great advancements since the last version, and looks sharp now, but from my understanding it is going to be a standalone program outside of x. for many people that want multimedia proformance in the car this will work great and be easy for them.

but for those of us that want to be able to try new things i'm guessing nghost will draw our attention.

Both teams are doing a great job, and i look foraward to seeing the results.

kev000 · 06-30-2007, 11:39 AM

WindowMaker looks good. I'll have to check it out.

BTW, If anyone wants to help out and knows how to code in basic, nGhost's skin editor needs a maintainer. Eubey has written all the code for it in the cross platform REAL BASIC and has done a really good job

. However he has handed over the code to the community so he can get back to his main job, really awesome graphics. If anybody wants to pick it up and run with it feel free. PM me or eubey if you are interested. Thanks.

blk02si · 07-01-2007, 11:18 PM

Hey guys just got back form vacation and was playing with some new linux code and I found a distro that literally blows linux ice out of the water. It is slax linux 6.0 (currently RC4) It has linuxICE fiesty beat by 150mb, (its only 200 mb iso) it boots faster, has better hardware detection, is faster on my test machine and yet it runs a stripped down version of KDE. This distro detected my touchscreen, KB, mouse, all ntfs and fat32 drives, network connection, and wifi all without user intervention and IMO has more functionality than the current linuxICE distro, and its still running live, not even installed to HD yet! I'm not trying to discourage your work at all kev but I think im am going to move over to this distro to start my linux car software. SInce KDE is the GUI I can use Qt to code a frontend for it. I've always liked KDE for a GUI and the fact this distro is based off slackware has me sold. Not sure how the developers got it to be so small and fast yet so feature rich but I highly recommend you DL it and try it out. Starting with this distro and adding nGhost may save you months of development.

http://www.slax.org/

Its also very easy to embed which makes me a happy camper as its the only way I roll.

reece146 · 07-02-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by blk02si

Hey guys just got back form vacation and was playing with some new linux code and I found a distro

[..snip..]

http://www.slax.org/

Hey cool, thanks for posting this. I am going to try using it in my setup I think since it has a stripped down console only version ready to go. It appears that adding X and FVWM will get me to around 90MB for a full install w/o gpsdrive for the M3.

It looks a lot easier than the Gentoo stuff I've been doing. Why do custom when turnkey just works?