OpenICE, Linux and Why

pyr0 · 06-13-2009, 04:39 PM

Hello all

having only used linux to f**k around and decide that for a gaming computer its just not easy enough to bother with, i come here now with carPC in mind, as generally i will only be using my new CarPC set up for the basics of Audio/Video, linux is looking good, while as a beta tester of windows7 since it was avaliable to be one, i do believe windows7 will be better than Vista (even if it does have the ****ty Vista UI) I though some crazy good linux setup would be the way to go as most if not all Linux distros have the apps i need for audio and video playback.

back when i was testing out Linux, i was always either installing on back up PCs, but i loved the USB installs "hacker style"

want to know in general a few things;

Most people use OpenICE? (which i am / have just downloaded)

Why is Ice better than say Ubuntu which i also have
Will it fully support all my hardware (windows 7 has almost everything built in up to current high end Gcards)
What are average boot times with Ice? (Current W7 is 14-18 seconds)
Does Ice support all the monitoring goodies, like temp, fan speed, CPU infos?

For all of those lurking in this forum, the linux breed, why did you choose linux over XP/7 (no need to ask about vista, ****in on your CPU would be better for it)

Thank You
---

tdb30_ · 06-13-2009, 08:47 PM

I chose linux because it is what I use on a regular basis. If someone just wants a plug and play solution windows is probably the better choice. I want something I can customize the way I want it, not the way a developer thinks I should have it.

A carpc on Linux isn't easy there are a lot of hoops to go through. The biggest of all is a decent nav program. But if you want to learn something when you build a carpc vs just install a few apps and be done with it then linux is a better choice.

gandhijee · 06-14-2009, 01:33 AM

lets see if this gets through

i think the guys are making a mistake by basing of ubuntu, these are full fledge desktop/server linux's, not embedded....

OpenICE should either
A) use emdebian
B) QNX - there is a personal version that is avail for use
C) embedded *BSD prolly free - a dynamic version of free is like 50 megs IIRC
D) build up a custom Linux in the idea of DSL - honestly a custom linux for a carputer could be around 30 megs i think. somewhere around 15 or so compressed, and this would offer super boot times.

i could go in to great detail on why Ubuntu/Fedora and all ARE NOT good choices for a CarPC based OS... if it was you'd see the car manufactures using it.

admin
wtf do i need to do to get approval... this is like my 7th bloody post....

kev000 · 06-14-2009, 05:22 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by gandhijee

i think the guys are making a mistake by basing of ubuntu, these are full fledge desktop/server linux's, not embedded....

OpenICE should either
A) use emdebian
B) QNX - there is a personal version that is avail for use
C) embedded *BSD prolly free - a dynamic version of free is like 50 megs IIRC
D) build up a custom Linux in the idea of DSL - honestly a custom linux for a carputer could be around 30 megs i think. somewhere around 15 or so compressed, and this would offer super boot times.

i could go in to great detail on why Ubuntu/Fedora and all ARE NOT good choices for a CarPC based OS... if it was you'd see the car manufactures using it.

I think you are probably referring to LinuxICE, which is the distro containing OpenICE developments.

I respectfully disagree for the following reasons:

1) LinuxICE isn't based on the desktop version of Ubuntu, it is built from a debootstrap and only contains the ubuntu packages that are required for the IVI environment.

2) The only difference between emdebian and debian is what? ULibC packages instead of GLibC? We would gain very little by basing an x86 distro off of emdebian rather than ubuntu/debian.

3) LinuxICE is a demonstration of the OpenICE platform. As such, it needs to be able to run on a wide variety of hardware. LinuxICE achieves this by basing off of the Ubuntu kernel, which has arguably, the best hardware support of any distro out there. LinuxICE's target group is not car manufacturers, it's people in this forum: Enthusiasts. For specific hardware, you should build something a little less generic, and more specific for the platform. OpenICE's software can be built on any system.

kev000 · 06-14-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by pyr0

Hello all

having only used linux to f**k around and decide that for a gaming computer its just not easy enough to bother with, i come here now with carPC in mind, as generally i will only be using my new CarPC set up for the basics of Audio/Video, linux is looking good, while as a beta tester of windows7 since it was avaliable to be one, i do believe windows7 will be better than Vista (even if it does have the ****ty Vista UI) I though some crazy good linux setup would be the way to go as most if not all Linux distros have the apps i need for audio and video playback.

back when i was testing out Linux, i was always either installing on back up PCs, but i loved the USB installs "hacker style"

want to know in general a few things;

Most people use OpenICE? (which i am / have just downloaded)

Why is Ice better than say Ubuntu which i also have
Will it fully support all my hardware (windows 7 has almost everything built in up to current high end Gcards)
What are average boot times with Ice? (Current W7 is 14-18 seconds)
Does Ice support all the monitoring goodies, like temp, fan speed, CPU infos?

For all of those lurking in this forum, the linux breed, why did you choose linux over XP/7 (no need to ask about vista, ****in on your CPU would be better for it)

Thank You
---

LinuxICE is based on ubuntu packages, however it's slimmed down and thus faster than stock ubuntu.

I don't have a current LinuxICE2 boot time. UNB (ubuntu netbook remix) boots in < 30s on my atom330 board. That's all drivers loaded etc. Windows XP boots slightly faster but that's stock without any drivers loaded. Windows7 is not faster than XP from what I hear. Do you get 14-18 seconds in Windows7 on carpc hardware or on desktop hardware?

Moblin boots in < 10s, so the future for fast boot in Linux is looking bright. That's one of the highest priorities for the next ubuntu (9.10).

I believe LinuxICE will be better than XP and I believe Linux is a much better platform for carpc's in general. The reason is, no matter how much you hack windows, its still designed to be a Desktop Operating system. It was NEVER designed to be used in the car. That's why windows frontends "Cover up" the windows shell with their own UI. The OpenICE paradigm is such that the applications don't mask the OS, they are the OS. Linux allows us to replace a desktop shell with a mobile shell. OpenICE owns the desktop, the dock, and the window manager functions. OpenICE takes advantage of existing Open Source apps when there is one that fits the ideology, and develops their own is there is a missing piece.

In the end, I believe you can have a much better integrated system using Linux than you ever can with windows.

Software on the Windows side for CarPCs have about a 4-5 year headstart. With enough of the right people behind OpenICE, it'll soon be able to compete well as a complete platform and not just a "masking" frontend.

nalav · 06-14-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by kev000

Moblin boots in < 10s, so the future for fast boot in Linux is looking bright. That's one of the highest priorities for the next ubuntu (9.10).

Single second boot times is nothing new to Linux. It is, however, new to a few mainstream distros which previously tried to do more upon boot than most people would ever need.

Quote:

In the end, I believe you can have a much better integrated system using Linux than you ever can with windows.

That is so true.

pyr0 · 06-14-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by kev000

Do you get 14-18 seconds in Windows7 on carpc hardware or on desktop hardware?

CarPC setup is currently ;

K8VM800MR2 MicroATX
2600+ Sempron
1GB DDR400
128mb FX5200 Slimline
2x 80gb Sata HDD
16x Dvd Burner

So it is a desktop set up i guess, just crammed into a F**king small case, not a square inch of room wasted

Really would rather sub 10second boots, to make a car PC as convenient as normal car peripherals i think it is required.

Time to play with linux it seems

hexxamillion · 06-28-2009, 05:29 AM

LINUX is the ultimate..we can do what we want and make it work how we like. Not to mention regarding hardware support...LINUX enthusiasts and gurus have to admit that it has come a long way and these days I have to do very little to get my system to support most commercial or closed source hardware...even if they say they only support Windows/MAC.

Windows is too bloated (yes you can slim it down with lots of drama), you have to either purchase software and install drivers where most of the time is a simple config file edit or precompiled kernel module on LINUX....and driver packages are nice and FREEEE..

I will agree with kev000 in the post about LINUXICE, in that of the many distros Ubuntu (kernel-wise) is the best in regards to hardware support.

OpenSource in general is the best for projects such as a CarPC because of the close community, mobility, customization for integrating new innovations and not to mention.... FREEEEE!

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