Machinehead

It was a problem even when apple didn't allow 3rd party hardware.

Bugbyte

2K1 makes a good point about car PC's. A Windows car PC is generally very stable. It's a different beast altogether.

Of course you can run OSX on a PC if you are tech savvy enough to do the research and figure it out. But it's sort of a parlor trick. Most people who do that already own a PC and don't want to buy the Mac just to run OSX. I'd be willing to bet that they run it mainly just to see if they can but don't use it regularly. But it is easier to run Windows on the Mac than the other way around.

And the other points are right as well - if you want choice, flexibility and options for in car hardware and software, just get a PC.

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pRoFiT

Yes there are, Because toyotas are built to last. And are better priced. Not cheap just better.


I think there is more support on the internet for PC's because there are more PC users. Not because they crash. Plus since ive been running linux i dont think my pc has crashed. PC's dont have to have Microsoft on them. There is linux,unix,freeBSD,windows,OS2(R.I.P.),Solaris. Linux has numerous versions from fedora, ubuntu, etc... How many OS's can run on MAC without an emulator?

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2k1Toaster

@Hardware: You can no longer argue that mac hardware makes a mac better. There is no argument available anymore. A mac is a pc now. They use standard off the shelf Intel processors instead of the ibm processors of days past. They use standard off the shelf 2.5" sata drives now. They use standard laptop drives. There is absolutely no difference. You can build a mac if you had access to their shiny case. Same parts. The only part that you couldnt get an off the shelf duplicate of is their BIOS. But I think pheonix makes it? I am not sure on that though.

In the days of the power pc cpu, this was a valid argument. And I loved macs for video and graphic intensive applications because the PPC processor was the best processor on the market for video instructions. But now, the cpu outsources the video to a video card and the standard intel chips works wonders for everything else.

As far as software, like I said, both are stable when installed. OSX "supports" limited hardware because macs use only certain type of hardware because the OS comes with the PC. OSX supports a lot more hardware than what they officially support which is good. Microsoft cannot just say "We only support this hardware list, all others is a crap shoot". On top of that, Microsoft builds in backwards compatibility with previous operating systems and drivers... until Vista that is, which only goes back through NT OS's. But XP supported drivers from 95 and 3.1. That sort of backwards compatibility is not an easy feat, and very difficult to pull off. That is why I can install my dot matrix printer from the late 80's on my XP system. And with a couple checkmarks in vista, it works there too. Try that on a mac.

I said I wouldnt get into another mac vs. pc, but oh well, what's done is done.




Hondas too

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iamgnat

I don't know about OS2 (god I haven't heard that name in a while..) and Solaris, but all the rest work just fine with out an emulator on Apple hardware. Plus it is also the only hardware that OS X can run on without having to use hacks to do it.


Yes and no. Yes it is an Intel based PC just like any other. What has been proven time and again since the switch though is that where the off the shelf makers (Dell, HP, etc..) are willing to use the cheapest parts that matches their advertised specs (thus causing two "identical" systems in the same order to be full of different parts internally), Apple is very particular about making sure everything is the same.


That's cause it's not BIOS anymore I thought you could purchase EFI based MBs, just that they weren't common as most of the PC based OSs don't have good support for it yet?


Technically it still is (and any instruction really). The MFGs just have their heads up their ***. They had the corner on the server market for the longest time and were happy with it. Apple moved to Intel because IBM (and others) weren't interested in increasing speed while reducing power and heat as those were not (or so they believed) important to their primary market. Unfortunately they didn't think companies might like to save money in their computer rooms until it is now probably too late.

No one that understands the design differences between RISC and CISC or has done assembler for them will argue that RISC isn't more efficient with less speed. Sadly being in the consumer PC business, Apple has to play the (G|M)hz speed games just like everyone else.


This is a critical point that makes their platform more stable for the average user. Is using some no-name cheap (or just plain ancient) peripheral more important than the stability of the OS? Not to me, i'd rather accomplish what i'm trying to get done.


They could have if they had done it a couple of decades ago. Now that would be seen as an anti-competitive move and all hell would break loose.


Actually that is one of the things that I despise about Windows (and Linux is just as bad). There are too problems with this. First it eats up far more resources than required and second it is the main access point for many of it's security holes. Apple did it right with their cut to OS X by doing away with most of the legacy support and then adding it back in as an emulation rather than being built into the OS itself (didn't need it, you just didn't install the Classic package).

As far as supporting old hardware, one of the guys I work with still uses his old (early 90s) Apple laser printer on his 10.5 Intel iMac at home (no idea what if anything he had to do beyond an adapter though).


Yeah, I feel the same way

-dave

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Bugbyte

Well, I don't get it, then. If the Mac uses all standard hardware, how exactly is it that it supports limited hardware? I can and do buy PC drives, cases, keyboards, mice and so forth that I use on my Mac with no issues at all. The only time this is a problem is when it requires a driver, so while I can, for example, plug a USB device like a printer into the Mac and see it, I can't always print to it. Just like Vista.

If you mean things like I can't use Fusion Brain on it, that's true. But that is a specialized piece of hardware and a very good argument for why you might want to run Windows on a CarPC.

As for backwards compatibility, well, I can run anything all the way back to OS 9 which is pretty ancient. Everything else can be run on an emulator.

I think we have been pretty respectful of each other as a community because we're all experimenters. I'm going to close this thread not because it is out of control but precisely because it isn't. I think we've aired out the differences enough for the OP.

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