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Old 03-22-2005, 01:19 PM   #46
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I know I know...52 posts...lets beat the hell out of him
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Old 03-22-2005, 07:15 PM   #47
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Quote: Originally Posted by FireAnt
I like it!

Guy's i just want to say I really like what you've got so far, just what I needed.

Will it still run under this version of osX even after the new updated version comes out and you continue to update the program? I don't want to pay for this and then find out I have to pay for an updated operating system to keep using it on my Mac Mini.

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks Mike!
Thats a good question.. hadn't thought of that. It's a bit hard to give you a 100% positive or truthfull answer cause it's not like we have a lot of computers where we can test this. I can assure you I'll be ordering Tiger ASAP... not to mean I'll install it in the car immediately (quite on the contrary). Eventualy we might HAVE to upgrade to Tiger only in order to use some of it's features. One example is Bluetooth, I've read that in tiger you can actually use the computer as a hands free and use the mic and sound output to talk... thats not possible in Panther. This is something we might really look into.

Summing it up: I'd be lying if I said that we won't start coding for Tiger as soon as we believe it to be stable enough... but until we start coding for Tiger we won't know if it'll be compatible with Panther.
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:08 PM   #48
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This is a long post, but we're setting objectives here! First place let
me say we've sold 0 (zero) applications so far (23/03/05). That means
we started working for free and we are still very actively developing
this for free. This was a great surprise for us because we would have
payed for something like this. It would probably have saved us a lot of
nights! Money is NOT the objective of i3, but is of course an
incentive. I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise. We would, however, like
money to be a byproduct of a good application. We plan to keep this
positive attitude and continue developing this. If you-re not ready to
buy the application, you can help incentivate us by clicking on the ads
on our site. (http://www.i3team.com). That out of the way, let me
start...

We've been told that i3 has no goals or no final "destination"... to an
extent it's true because we've been trying to set the goals as we go
along according to feedback. Feedback has been scarce and feedback like
"It's crap" isn't very helpful in telling us where to go. Maybe we need
to get some ideas down and open them up for discussion. Let me tell you
where I'd like to go with i3 if I was building a car mac from scratch,
which I am.

Our first goal is to make i3 99% customizable. can't say 100% cause
there's always something that can't be changed. Version 1.0 was very
basic and about 20% customizable... version 1.1 I think is a very big
improvement and is about 90% customizable. We're missing Font and Text
customization on buttons or others and button size. We're also going to
try to make the quantity of buttons user definable... although 8
buttons seems a good starting point! Different screen resolutions are
also in the works since not everyone wants to use the same resolution
or even as the same screen size. These features are eluding us, but
we'll get there. Once this is down we are now free to make it up to be
more than a simple application launcher. But first we'd like it to be a
GOOD application launcher.

To me, the worst area in my MacJeep is the GPS software. It's also the
most difficult area to develop for! Route 66 sucks, period. It sucks
even more inside a car environment. It's normal it wasn't made for
this. This is the first application Fabio and I will look at
integrating with i3, but will probably be the last to be integrated.
Fabio already has something working so it's a question of developing it
a bit further and making it user friendly... right now it's coder
friendly. ;-) One big problem with GPS applications are their map
databases. Besides the GB they occupy it's close to impossible to
please everyone. I want a Portuguese map... I doubt there are many of
you reading this who want a Portuguese map. Besides this "small"
problem there is a much larger one: all these database maps cost money.
Tons of it. Much more than we're able or willing to pay. Even if I sold
my car I wouldn't be able to pay for some of the databases. One option
might be to make it possible to add scanned or downloaded maps. That
might give us a few problems with scales and accuracy... besides not
having the ability do be text searchable, but if we could get a GPS app
up and running in i3 it would be a very good first step. This is
something that developing in 4D is good for... databases and stuff like
this can be integrated into the application. Most other environments
would need separate components all over the place. We might even offer
a GPS application ALSO as a separate component if people are happy with
it.

Phone application. This is important. We want to fully integrate the
phone. Panther doesn't allow audio to stream from the phone to the
system through Bluetooth... I've read Tiger does. We want a BIG phone
pad on the screen which we can use for dialling a number or for SMS
messaging. I'm using BluePhoneElite which by itself is amazing... but
obviously it's developed for desktop use so a lot of features need a
mouse or keyboard. If you have a Bluetooth Phone and haven't tried
BluePhoneElite you-re really missing something good.

Other areas which are easier to work for and we might go in that
direction is to make a custom front end for iTunes. To an extent I
don't really understand the need for this cause iTunes isn't too bad to
use in the car... especially for me who uses it 99% of the time in
Shuffle mode, but if thats what people want we can go there. I also use
a Powermate to control iTunes since the powermate can be configured to
replicate any key. I can control system volume, track up or down, pause
and play and scratch up or down. This gives me the basic control I need
over iTunes. I probably won't be selecting any playlists (let alone
making them!) on the go... shuffle satisfies my eclectic tastes. But
hey, we're all different and I can understand someone wanting to scroll
through their playlists in a readable interface. :-)

Next: Video application. VLC works very well for me, but if people want
us to develop something from scratch we can try. VLC reads most
formats, goes to full screen automatically and all other needed
features can be programmed with the Powermate again. If someone can
explain why another video app is needed we'll look into it, otherwise
we might drop this or leave it for last. It can also be programmed to
open up a default folder at launch so all you'd have to do is store
your movies in there. You can also configure it as the default app when
you insert a DVD o VCD or whatever.

TV / Radio application. I have no opinion on this yet. I'm waiting to
have things running in the car first. A difficulty with this is getting
this to run with different hardware... I have a mixed TV / Radio tuner
which needs specific drivers. This isn't a system feature or anything
nor are there generic drivers for it. This is something that IF
developed would have to be designed for a specific hardware. Not
easy... I haven't tested this at all, though, so first let me get the
car moving again and start to catch all the "baddies" on the interface.
At first sight it doesn't look to bad once all the stations are
memorized and TV channels set.

Photos. I'm sorry... nothing beats iPhoto. Nothing. I doubt you'll be
doing a lot of picture uploading while driving (please don't, I'm on
the road too... and sometimes on the sidewalk!). iPhoto might be the
sole reason I'll have a mouse and keyboard stowed away in the car
somewhere. Slideshows and stuff like that will be dependent on iPhoto
or the system screensaver.

Summing it up, I'd like to have stuff developed in the following order:
1) GPS
2) Phone
3) iTunes front
4) Video

BUT.. and this is a big BUT (no pun intended) i3 will always launch
whatever application you want. We will not force you to use our
applications. You might have done better somewhere we failed to do so.
We want to keep i3 flexible.

Some questions you could answer to help us:
What applications are you configuring i3 buttons for?
What applications would you like to see integrated into i3?
What are we missing in the interface?
Tell us a special feature/ option you need.
Anything else you might care to spend your time to tell us will be
read and appreciated. I guarantee it. Any questions you pose I will
answer (might take some time).

Thanks for spending the time to read this.
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:49 PM   #49
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PCs, not really..... i use a pc, mac and linux...

i've got the mac mini, can't wait to try this out as a car pc

with regards to hosting and the pops ups.... macs come with
apache installed and configured....why not used that rather
than have pops....doesnt bother me as i use safari and do
not get any pop ups....

Keep up the good work...
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Old 03-29-2005, 05:14 PM   #50
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Thumbs up

No offense, but I haven't exactly had time to read over your long @$$ post. Am i correct in assuming that you meant you will be releasing your software to the public for free now? I know this isn't the best business model, but in the world of carputers I guess you can't have much of a business model yet. There just aren't enough people willing to pay for this stuff yet. I think the best practice in a community like this is to open it up for everyone to use and tinker with and eventually hope that people will be generous enough to donate to the cause once it gets to a point where they're happy. The ad clicking idea isn't too bad either. It's something that takes a very small amount of time for people to do, and makes you money at the same time. :-)

I'm not sure if any of you MacCar people will be going to the Meet Up in Corona, CA USA but i would love to see how people have implemented Macs in their cars and especially Mac Minis. I will definitely be there, but unfortunately don't have a carputer of my own yet.
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Old 03-29-2005, 07:04 PM   #51
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No it's not for free.
We'll keep working on things even if no one buys it.
If somebody wants to pay, great, if not... live with the demo. No problem either.
I'm using this in my MacJeep and Fabio is installing it in his new car as well... so this will keep moving and will receive updates.
Version 1.2 is in the works. Cool new stuff coming...
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:06 PM   #52
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WHy doesnt anyone want to use apple core video and audio?

You dont need to run Quicktime Movie Player to play a quicktime or quicktime playable movies in any application you develop. Same with iTunes capabilities.

nothing has to be "from scratch" in the sense of writing your own MP3 player or video app, but making a front end to access the OSX capabilities that are built in... seems simple enough to me, im just lazy and waiting for Tiger...
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:17 PM   #53
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But to use apple core you need to develop an application that uses it, and it needs to be built from scratch. The system does the decoding part, but you need to figure how to display and control it. Either I don't get your point or you don't get apple core... am i wrong?
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:03 PM   #54
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Look, I have really no business here... There is a reason that no one has paid you 25$ for your software...

As far as I know, anyone with a slight knowledge of MacOS and Applescript can write an app that does what your does in very little time for their own custom needs.

Look at all the FREE frontends that integrate Music, Video Player, Browser, GPS (ok this isnt available on the mac), rear view camera, phone control, etc,etc,etc

It really frustrates me that there are so many amazing softwares out there for free, then someone comes along with a feather (yes, in comparison to what others offer you offer only a feather) and CHARGE for it! and no, you arent charging $5 you are charging 5 times more...
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Old 03-31-2005, 04:07 AM   #55
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First place: Thanks for taking the time to write. Believe me when I say I value that even if I disagree with your opinions. Healthy discussion is always good!

Now for a reply...
How come there is nothing out there for the mac? How come nothing has been written? Is everybody that lazy if it's that simple? PLEASE show me where all the "FREE frontends that integrate Music, Video Player, Browser, GPS (ok this isnt available on the mac), rear view camera, phone control, etc,etc,etc" are?? I'd love to have a look at them. The reason we did this was because we couldn't find anything out there for the mac! I really don't understand what youre comparing us too you say "others" and I ask "What others??", is it the PC Media Engine? Theres nothing like it for the Mac, unfortunately. If there was I'd gladly pay for it and not even think about developing i3. It IS work you know. We do spend time on it. What really frustrates ME is that at least we're trying to do something yet very few people seem to value the effort. You seem to believe that it'd be better if we did nothing at all. Would it be better if we just kept i3 for ourselves or if it didn't exist? Think of it this way: i3 is setting the standard for a mac media application (however low you think our standard is...). Whatever comes next HAS to be better, right? Maybe i3 will get people off their lazy @$$ and make them do something. Get the "market" moving. Better yet: If it's so simple YOU do it and I'll buy your application for $25 if I think it's better than i3!! :-)

On a different note: Adoro a sua cidade! Meus pais moram na Bahia e passo por aí sempre que os vou visitar. (Nice car too... ;-) )
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Old 03-31-2005, 04:25 PM   #56
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I have said it once and will say it over again. Your selling an application launcher.

People.

Learn applescript.

Write a script for each application you would like to launch. (Its very simple 20 words total - most likely 3 lines)

Develop or just rip off an icon that you would like to use for each of these applications.

Assign the icon to the script that you wrote.

Make your icons larger by pressing apple j on your little keyboard.

Increase your dock size in the system preferences and set the dock to always be on.

Dump the useless programs you dont need in your dock.

And then Bam.... You have the same program emdub is trying to sell.
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Old 03-31-2005, 04:51 PM   #57
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Yes, we are selling an application launcher. It's right there, in our front page. Not trying to fool anyone, maxipad96. We're also asking what people want in i3... care to participate? If you care to spend a few more minutes, read the news section in our forums. Just some stuff we're working on...

1st we want a good customisable application launcher... then we'll look at application integration. Applescript is nowhere near the capabilities of 4d... we're ready for the future, anyone developing in Applescript is severely limited to begin with.
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Old 03-31-2005, 06:26 PM   #58
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I'm trying to decide whether to go with a Mac Mini install or with an aftermarket Nav unit like Pioneer's AVIC-D1. On the one hand with the mac, you can do alot of cool stuff, but when I think about it, all I care about is my music (iPod adapter) and a really good Nav.

Now I've never used Route 66; I've heard that it's decent, and that it really sucks. I would love to see another Nav option on the mac. I'm not a developer so I don't know what the process of creating GPS software is or how difficult it could be, but if you guys are capable of writing superior NAV software I'm sure now would be a great time to develop and market such a product as more and more people are wanting a mini in their autos.

I guess another thing that I would like to have is the mentioned bluetooth link with my cellphone, which I would not be able to get with the AVIC-D1. However it's not a certainty that this would be doable with Tiger yet.

One thing that I really liked about the D1 is when you put the car in reverse, the screen automaticaly switches to a rearview camera (if installed). It'd be great if someone could develop such a system for the mac.

Of course many of this stuff goes beyond what i3 currently does and my be beyond the skill of small developers out there writing software for carpc installs.

This is what I want though. Just though I'd share my thoughts.
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:02 AM   #59
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IMHO Route 66 Sucks. I've worked with it in the car environment and hated it. It doesn't even remember window settings. It always opens to default and never to last view. If it did that to begin with it'd be better already. Opening up to view all of Europe when all I need immediately is my surrounding 100 km is a bit ridiculous. GPS interfaces aren't difficult to write if the drivers are out there, what makes a GPS application, though, are the databases. A GPS Map database costs way too much for 2 small developers to buy. A good vector based database that allows turn by turn guidance due to having knowledge of where it can or can't turn. The other option is making your own maps... obviously rules out any sort of guidance. All it would do is draw a straight line to your destination. Good for an airplane, but not for the road... ;-)

The bluetooth link at the moment I'm using BluePhoneElite to present my calls and SMS's and then use a HBH-300 to actually answer calls. BluePhoneElite also allows me to make calls which is easier on a 7" screen than fumbling with a small phone. I hope Tiger allows audio through BT.

The reverse camera is mostly a hardware wiring thing. There are a few threads on that in MP3.com which I have read. My Lilliput, for example, has 2 extra video inputs. One of them will be for my passengers to play playstation and the other will be the reverse camera. I might look into auto switching the video input when I get the reverse camera... but I haven't found a cheap weatherproof camera yet.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:12 AM   #60
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Hadn't checked out the website in a while. The Z skin starts to look a ton better than your original concept.

Looks cool and I would definatly run the program if it was free!

How do you customize the skin? Are the art files included w/ the prog?

Can I customize skins on the demo version?
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