Cold weather (-25c and lower)

RussellB · 08-16-2005, 09:48 AM

Question about cold weather....

I live in Calgary Alberta Canada... in the winter we can drop below -25c (I think we hit -32c last winter). What type of problems am I going to run into?

Will this extreme cold damage my screen? or the computer?

I came up with a solution to the problem that may work... running a line from my hot air vent to my computer case, I would have to monitor the heat so I don’t cook it, and have a shut off switch of some type. But does anyone have any other solutions?

muldrick · 08-16-2005, 01:07 PM

I've run mine to -15C no problems.
I would run a hose from the floor vent to the pc case and control the pc start up. (let it warm up first) After it is warmed up you can switch your heater control from floor to vents.

emdzey01 · 08-17-2005, 12:13 PM

condensation might be your only problem. the cold temperature is a computer's friend, but moisture is its enemy.

if it's cold and dry, don't worry about it. if moisture forms on it, you're pc might get fried.

your screen would take longer to power up at lower temperatures, but that's normal.

shotgunefx · 08-17-2005, 12:31 PM

What about using Silica Gel in the case?

Motoko · 08-17-2005, 01:37 PM

what about hard drives?

shotgunefx · 08-17-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Motoko

what about hard drives?

Good question. I side stepped it by using a Endurastar JK20 automotive grade drive. I tested it at 0f adn it worked perfectly. They take a lot of temp and shock but a little on the slow side.

DaPCWiz · 08-17-2005, 01:50 PM

I think harddrives are sealed airtight so their internals would have no problems with condensation.

shotgunefx · 08-17-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DaPCWiz

I think harddrives are sealed airtight so their internals would have no problems with condensation.

I think the concern is because the platters are so close together, that the thermal contraction/expansion can actually make the the platters hit the arm.

Jcarere · 08-17-2005, 02:37 PM

Cold causes the platters to contract so that should be ok. The only concern I see is if the metal on the arm contracts more than the platters then you could have a problem. Ive run a hard drive in negative temps and it ran fine.

andrel · 08-17-2005, 02:40 PM

Hard drives are sealed, but they actually "freeze" under very low temperature condition. I've tested my carputer down to -40, and the drive had a lot of problems. because of that, I strongly advise to wait for the temperature to climb over -10 befopre starting your computer.

The other fragile part is the LCD screen, but that does not seems to be a real problem.

André

shotgunefx · 08-17-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by andrel

Hard drives are sealed, but they actually "freeze" under very low temperature condition. I've tested my carputer down to -40, and the drive had a lot of problems. because of that, I strongly advise to wait for the temperature to climb over -10 befopre starting your computer.

The other fragile part is the LCD screen, but that does not seems to be a real problem.

André

I tested that auto drive by putting it in my nomad jukebox and freezing it. The drive was fine, the lcd was all whacky though.

-zip- · 08-17-2005, 06:53 PM

If you have a radio, pull out the carputer over the winter the cold months, you are looking at only 60-90 days or so here in Ontario where the weather is similar to yours.

Will it work warmed up? Yep. But the life expectency of the drive and LCD screen will be shortened if you are willing to put up with that.

My screen is about 700 canuck bucks alone, I am not going to have it go below the recommended storage temp. Period.

andrel · 08-17-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgunefx

I tested that auto drive by putting it in my nomad jukebox and freezing it. The drive was fine, the lcd was all whacky though.

Your freezer is about -15. At -40, the drive have problems keeping up.

André

Jackboot · 08-17-2005, 07:47 PM

I'm from Calgary/Edmonton/Lethbridge also, so I can relate to your concern. It is DEFINATELY a valid concern.

The limitations of a CarPC in extremely cold temperatures (Americans: this does not mean "0 degrees" - it means down to -40 celcius) seems to be limited to the hard drive. Some power supplies may not be able to operate at low temperatures either - just make sure to read the specs before buying. I haven't had a problem with my Xenarc LCD in cold temperature aside from a bit of ghosting / slow response when it is warming up.

The hard drive will not have problems with the platters contracting/expanding etc. The problem is that new drives use "liquid fluid bearings" to make the hard drive spin quietly and quickly. The liquid, which is oil based, does the same thing as your motor oil in the winter - it gels. This will cause your computer to be unable to boot at very cold temperatures. Most hard drives are only rated down to ~0 degrees celcius, but will *actually* work more like -10 or -15 degrees without too much problem.

I've solved the problem (I hope) by getting rid of my hard drive in the car. Instead, my install runs on a 1GB compact flash card. This is supposed to work down to about -40 or even colder, although it is rated for -20 celcius I think. It is also not prone to problems from shock and vibration in a car environment.

Of course 1GB is not enough for any more than my OS and a few applications. So for media I am using an Archos 20GB HDD based MP3 player. It is a portable MP3 player of course, but it is also a USB Mass storage device to windows. No drivers are needed. One important feature of this MP3 player is that it utilises a Directory/file structure for organising the MP3s, so that it can be used in FrodoPlayer in "browse by album art" mode. Each folder contains an album and a .jpg of the album cover. By using the MP3 player for my media, I can take the player with me and listen to tunes in the winter when I go inside to school or whatever and the player stays warm. It is great because it serves double-duty.

Doing a CF install and using a removeable USB media drive (get a 2.5" USB HDD enclosure if you don't want to go the MP3 player route) is what I recommend. I don't think using your car's heater is a good option. Remember, when it is -40 it is going to take your car 15 minutes to warm up anyway and the heater will do no good for your computer.

Another viable option is listed by -zip- above: just don't have a carputer for 3 months

Take it out during the couple months that it is colder than a witches tit.

Good luck

PS: I *wish* that it never got below -32 last winter. See my attached pic from my car's OBC. That isn't the coldest it got either - one time it was -42.5

shotgunefx · 08-17-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Jackboot

....
The limitations of a CarPC in extremely cold temperatures (Americans: this does not mean "0 degrees" - it means down to -40 celcius) seems to be limited to the hard drive. Some power supplies may not be able to operate at low temperatures either - just make sure to read the specs before buying. I haven't had a problem with my Xenarc LCD in cold temperature aside from a bit of ghosting / slow response when it is warming up.
...

Pretty cold for around here and for the specs most of them are rated at. I'm in New England and we'll have a few winter weeks, sometimes longer, of subzero temperatures. Normally single digits. That's something like -22c, not exactly warm.

The J4K20 is rated for -20° C to +85° C btw.