jvoelcker

Hi,

I looked at CarPCs a few years back but am only now finally getting around to putting one together.

The CarPC will be installed in a 4x4 for a trip across Africa so needs to be pretty rugged and resiliant to dust and bangs.

At the moment my main requirements are to use the CarPC primarily for navigation using Touratech QV and MS Mappoint 2007 which I already use occasionally on a laptop in the car.

I'm keen on using PhoneControl.Net and am interested in adding tv/radio/cd for audio to replace the car's current hifi.

Assuming the mini ITX form factor, what are the recommendations for motherboards/processors out of what's available at the moment. Some mapping applications need quite a bit of power so would want a fast processor and around 1Gb RAM.

One of the key things would be to get a MB that will support Mirrored or RAID drives in case drives get damaged.

On the HD front I'm guessing something like 2.5" 80Gb notebook drives would be best, although someone I know may have a source of IPod drives that will be even lighter and more resillient.

I ideally would want an 8" touchscreen that can either be mounted on the top of the dash or slide into a DIN socket - either way it would need a good stand so that it can be tilted to avoid reflections - any recommendations?

I would also want bluetooth and wireless functionality so that I can connect my phone as well as laptop.

It would be handy to have a single front end application for accessing the main functionality - any recommendations?

That's all for now - sorry for all the questions.

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Cheers,

Julian

DarquePervert

Now that sounds completely and utterly cool!


Why assume MiniITX formfactor?
Other formfactors have a lot more options, IMHO. The flexibility of choices, as well as lower cost more than makes up for the larger pysical size of the motherboard.


A RAID array is going to suck away power needlessly. I understand your reasoning and logic, and you have a valid point about mirrored drives.
However...
If you're bouncing across Africa, the likelihood that you're going to be able to replace a drive is minimal, I'd think. I don't know, however.

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jvoelcker

Initially we are just aiming to get out and around Morocco in April, but if that goes well we want to go further.


I'm thinking about MiniITX oon the basis that whilst we will be in a massive 4x4 there will be 5 of us and a stack of kit so it needs to be burried somewhere, which is why I am tempted by something that will slot in to a Din or 2 Din socket.


OK, take your point about the RAID, possibly a little OTT. As for replacement drives I would take one or two spare drives with me.

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Julian

JC-S60

Morocco is a wonderful country, you are going to love it!

Mini-itx is a good base, as it uses very little power and it's more solid then big mainboards because of it's size.

I would look at a solid state drive of 4GB for operating system, software and maps, and a 2.5" disk for media (of which you can take a second offline copy with you as a backup).

Good luck!

And if you are interested in a pre-built solution, let me know, as I am willing to make you a deal if circumstances permit - it would be a good test of our product!

Joachim

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Wiredwrx

What about a Pansonic Toughbook?

As for RAID, mt GF works for a company that just released a "personal" raid system. It is external, and can be configured up to 2 terrabytes (though I doubt you need that much) The system I believe utilizes firewire to connect to the computer. The external case is quite nice, and uses SATA drives, so it is pretty fast. It uses 4 HDs, and has status lights on the front of the unit for the drives. It will automatically restore any of the drives in the system by just swapping out the bad drive, no user interface is needed. And, it is about $2,000, which is pretty cheap for 2 terrabytes of data.

Michael

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jvoelcker

Thanks, I know a lot of people that have been there and loved it. The intersting thing will be to see how the children get on.


Yes, I had been considering using a solid state drive. My neighbour is a disk engineer and has suggested various options. The key thing is minimising the disk access.

With mapping it is generally a case of loading the map and then letting the software just run with minimal disk access appart from writing the route to a log.

With media it is different with almost constant disk access.

We have been looking at just storing the disks by themselves in foam and by keeping the size down the shock from impacts will be reduced (less momentum) - this is one off the reasons for considering the IPod drives that are very small and light


Thanks. Time will be tight so may well consider buying a pre-build system! Do you have any specs? So far I have only come across http://www.cartft.com/ as possible supplier.

Cheers,

Julian

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Cheers,

Julian

jvoelcker

Yes I have considered one, and am still toying around with having one for 'loose' use within the car whilst on the move, but for the main navigation etc am still keen on something built in.

Cheers,

Julian

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Julian

Wiredwrx

You can use it as a "built" in solution. Just connect it to an external monitor if you don't want to have the unit open in the cabin all the time.

The unit was DESIGNED for this type of work. I DOUBT you will be able to duplicate their efforts easily, cheaply, and with "regular" off the shelf desktop components.

Michael

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jvoelcker

As I said I will probably go for a second hand one for use 'loose' around the car, however I think it should be possible to replicate the same level of protection that they provide for hard drives, etc in a carpc for a fraction of the price.

The key problem areas appear to be:
HDs - protecting from shocks - by using light drives (notebook/ipod) these can be mounted in a 'chassis' made up from something like foam/sponge which will provide the impact absorbtion required.

Screen - OK, can't do much about that, however I would have thought that the latest Xenarc or Lilliput are probably designed to survive being dash mounted in your average vehicle.

MBs and attached components - I think the biggest problem with the motherboards and attached components is the connections coming loose. I need to get my hands on a motherboard and case to weigh up the options for securing them.

In reality we will probably get the same level of shocks in our car as someone in a road car with hard suspension and low profile tyres. The main difference will be along long road with corrugations, where the issue is more to do with continuous impacts, not the severity of them.

The only other thing we will have to deal with is dust, which is mainly an issue with cooling fans and and CD/DVD players although these can always be regularly blown out with an air line.

Another possible problem is cooling - I have considered putting the components into a sealed case with a filtered air inlet at one end and then a vaccuum at the other (possibly tapping into the car's inlet manifold) - this should provide sufficient flow for basic cooling - futher cooling could be provided by trying to use the metal case as a heat shield.

At the end of the day I think I really need to get some componets in front of me to have a play.

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Julian

turbocad6

just want to second what wired said, I think a toughbook is a great option....

first of all, it is made to handle dusty conditions, as well as damp conditions, as well as impacts & just general abuse....

there is a sensor built in that will actually park the drive head if an impact is big enough to possibly cause a head crash.... while this sometimes can be a noticeable "stutter" it's not that bad really, & is a whole lot better than damaging sectors... this can't be done on a desktop system as far as I know...

the toughbook has much r&d in the gel encasement for the hardrive(& the LCD), & is not readily duplicatable... it is up to the task because it is made for the task

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first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D

jvoelcker

Has anyone here tried stripping down a Toughbook to install just the component parts? - what ever solution I end up with it really needs to be buried in or behind the dash.

Looking at the costs of a reasonably specced Tougthbook it is still going to be cheaper to go for a proper CarPC (either home built or bought solution) and then carry suitable spares.

Cheers,

Julian

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Cheers,

Julian

turbocad6

before I found this forum I did several toughbook installs...some disected & some even whole... heres a shot of one caddy I did that used the whole toughbook, touchscreen & all... I have also done a few with there cf-17's, which used a 8.4" touchscreen.... panasonic uses a really sick touchscreen overlay that is coated in such a way that it is very usable in the sun.....

if I was to do one now I'd look at a cf-18... there sweeet & some have a true outdoor screen, & not only that, but the best outdoor screen of all the outdoor tablet screens really as fas viewability.... fujitsu, motion & a few others use the hydis lcd for indoor/outdoor, which has better viewing angles, but as far as pure readability, the panasonic is the best in side by side comparisons(except for fujitsu's st5031 which is a FULLY REFLECTIVE screen)

all you need to do for a permanent install is keep the whole base intact & seperate the screen.... there an LVDS interface & can be extended relatively easily....

this isn't the cheapest way to go, but... all things considered, a lilli transflective screen alone is almost $700... in the end, it isn't a ton more money really for great results... a used cf-18 may be in the $1,400 range now adays maybe?

also, jc-s60's idea of a solid state drive doesn't sound bad either, but you may have to do extra work to secure the processor cooling fan & ram & stuff to keep it from getting jarred on heavy hits...

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MY NEWEST INSTALL:modded infiniti fx with big screen - "If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving....................."

first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D

JC-S60

Correction: minimizing write access. Reading you can do as much as you want. Use a separate usb drive to store logs ans you'll be fine.

Here are some instructions on making XP solid as a rock on flash devices: http://osf1.gmu.edu/~sfiorito/eXPinstall.htm


The base model (1.2Ghz, 256Mb, 40Gb, Internal PSU and USB-IO) with cables would be €780.00

If you add AM/FM/RDS radio and integrated GPS hardware, that would be €1040.00

No screen is included in the above. The 7" Touchscreen option (Xenarc black with sunshield) is €385.00

A special shock-proof* harddrive of 40Gb would be €120.00 extra

A solid state harddisk for the OS and applications of 1Gb (on top of a normal 2.5" harddrive for storage) would be €160.00 (64Mb - 2Gb possible)

* Special-HDD for extreme requirements.
Use eg. in Offroad-applications or Test-/racing cars.
Operating temperature : -20° to 80° C
Vibration : up to 900G

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turbocad6

man, that thing is beautiful... what is that in us dollars, isn't it about 1:1.3 or something?

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MY NEWEST INSTALL:modded infiniti fx with big screen - "If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving....................."

first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D

JC-S60

Thanks, really appreciate it coming from you it's one of our last 2 prototypes, if I get an order for 10 pieces (or 10 orders for 1 ), I can get them produced.

This is what I got from XE.com:

1.00 EUR = 1.29638 USD

Joachim

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