JS8531

Like I said to wizard, its pretty pointless trying to have a productive discussion in a forum like this.

Dont stand in the way of the man whos doing it.

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lbridges

I, for one, would never dream of standing in the way of someone making an advance for humanity and the planet. However,

A productive discussion would seem to require an exchange of opinion and/or fact presented in a common language using a logical set of premises for whatever culture is hosting the discussion.

You have advocated for a process that seems to violate several generally accepted laws of physics, i.e., Conservation of Energy, and Thermodynamics. Logic would dictate that the onus of proof is therefore on you. Else I could freely assert a flying purple dragon is in my backyard, and if you did not believe me, then I would be justified in a veiled insult through claiming you refused to have a productive discussion.

I think you are guilty of the logical fallacy of a non sequitur, i.e., If A is true, then B is true. B is stated to be true. Therefore, A must be true.

david69leonard

dumping hydrogen into a gas engine will increase horse power and fuel economy, I did an experiment back in high school based on the same principles that are discussed in this thread

However if you do plan on doing this for yourself, replace the valves, piston rings, exaust in the engine to stainless steel. Otherwise you will have a huge corrosion problem in a very short time.

As far as extracting the hydrogen, it would take me all day to try and explain how i did it so good luck!!!

danielkh

No you didn't! (please note extreme sarcasm in that statement)
Figured that was more humorous than dragging out a thesaurus.

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Chairboy

JS8581 and David69Leonard: If you're generating the hydrogen in the car by cracking water, then bull****. The electricity used to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen is more than the power you get back when it burns in the engine.

Ask yourself: If it was energy positive, then why not just add more alternators and mayonaise jars and run the entire car off pure water?

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david69leonard

Using electrolisis is extremely inefficient, i was talking about Cold Fusion, Duh!

LMAO

danielkh

I don't know why everyone keeps wanting to throw logic and physics into this. The point is can you use hydrogen as a suplimental fuel source. The answer is yes, and it has been proven many times. Is it effecient, no. Is it logical? Probably not. Would it work to SOME degree (.001-100%)? Definitely.

I can break an egg using a Rube Goldberg device. Does it work? Yup. Is it effecient, logical, easy......

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Chairboy

Danielk: If you're getting the 'supplemental hydrogen' from water that you're converting in your car, then no, it DOESN'T WORK, it hurts your mileage because it consumes more power than you get. If you're getting the hydrogen from a big tank of compressed hydrogen, then sure, go nuts. But you aren't.

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danielkh

You know the biggest point here?

It doesn't matter. When the hydrogen cars come out, there will just be another group of greenie nuts that claim we are ruining the water supply, creating water shortages, or causing global warming through putting water into the atmosphere (go ahead and laugh, it will happen). Until we are walking everywhere (can't use horses because of peta), the nutjobs will never stop.

So work or not, it's a no win situation.

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david69leonard

Okay since everyone is hell bent on cheaply and efficiently extracting hydrogen from water to power a car, the solution is a chemical reaction, you can buy over the counter products that will do it for about the same price as filling your car up at the gas station. However purchasing large amounts of these chemicals might raise a red flag to the government and they might think you are building some kind of WMD. If you are not a chemist or dont know anything about chemical reactions dont do it. You also have to figure out on your own as far as storing the hydrogen and safely bleeding off the oxygen without mixing the two elements because doing so is extremely dangerous. Im not going to go into what chemicals to use because i dont have time and really dont want to however the internet is full of shisnit you can use.

A single glass of water has enough stored energy to power my M4 ATX for over ten years!!!

Chairboy

David69leonard: It's refreshing to see how you don't let facts get in your way. You know, scammers and snake oil salesmen need to feed their families too, so keep buying into their lies.

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danielkh

Two words. White phospherous.

Nothing to do with the topic, but everything to do with chemical reactions.

ya'll have fun. Too many insults for me.

david69leonard

actually, ive spent over the last ten years researching alternative energy and have been quite successful. Im just having a little bit of fun with this topic. I understand everyones frustration, we are all paying over $4 a gallon of gas and oil companies a boasting all time profits. We are in a great time right now, instead of the general population being content with the way things are going, the stage is being set for a new type of industrial revolution, but instead of industry getting the boost it will be energy. Its all up to the individual and not the government, the government is controlled like a corporation, if it is not instantly profitable to the economy then it wont happen. People are thinking harder than ever and we are all smarter than we were a hundred years ago. Its just a matter of time.

Chairboy

One word: Sucker.

BTW, I can make white phosphorus. And you're full of the stuff I'd use to make it from.

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david69leonard

If you guys are serious about alternative energy, do some research on Nicoli Tesla, that man had it right... and is only now getting any credit due to our current energy crisis.

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