anyone know about supplemental hydrogen?

wizardPC · 04-29-2008, 06:16 PM

I was just listening to the radio, and this guy called in talking about how he built a supplemental hydrogen injection system for his car.

Basically, you get a tub of water and use the car's electrical system to seperate the oxygen and hydrogen molecules. Then you dump the hydrogen in along with the atomized gasoline and poof! you get like a 20-40% increase in fuel economy.

Now, a quick google search turns up a couple of sites selling kits for a couple hundred dollars, but I'd really like to find a forum or a blog or something else non-commercial (kinda like these forums back in the OLD days when you had a 4 line VFD, a keypad, and a 386 running DOS).

Lovecraft · 04-29-2008, 06:18 PM

Ahahahaha. You actually believe this?

danielkh · 04-29-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Lovecraft

Ahahahaha. You actually believe this?

Yes, I do. And yes, it can be done as a suplimental fuel. Don't you watch mythbusters? It won't work on it's own. It can't create enough hydrogen.

wizardPC · 04-29-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Lovecraft

Ahahahaha. You actually believe this?

Do you believe in nitrous? Same thing, different source.

Bugbyte · 04-29-2008, 08:04 PM

Except the car doesn't generate the nitrous. You refill it from an outside source.

Mythbusters did a show on this and purchased a kit. You can't generate very much hydrogen from a battery and it doesn't work well with a gas engine.

greatwhite · 04-29-2008, 08:05 PM

not a practical application on a street driven vehicle in it's current form.............especially not something you can build in the basement...

Chris31 · 04-29-2008, 08:18 PM

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/off-...id-70-mpg.html

jjh221 · 04-29-2008, 08:50 PM

cake!

danielkh · 04-29-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bugbyte

Except the car doesn't generate the nitrous. You refill it from an outside source.

Mythbusters did a show on this and purchased a kit. You can't generate very much hydrogen from a battery and it doesn't work well with a gas engine.

On the show they did prove the concept of creating hydrogen. However, it didn't produce enough to run the car SOLELY on hydrogen. But as a suplemental, I could see where it could work, mixed with the gas vapors.

2k1Toaster · 04-29-2008, 09:56 PM

It would still be cheaper to plug your car in at home and pay the electric bill for seperating the hydrogen and use it while driving to supplement gas, rather than do nothing I am sure.

Just dont be cheap with the tank. It can go kablooey!

Quattro · 04-29-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Chris31

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/off-...id-70-mpg.html

so what was the conclusion in that thread?

Chris31 · 04-30-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Quattro

so what was the conclusion in that thread?

No idea.

Bugbyte · 04-30-2008, 11:04 AM

Good information on hydrogen as an energy source is here. Basically, they say that most hydrogen is generated from either natural gas or using electricity and water. It is cheaper to do it from natural gas.

Presuming you can get an efficiency boost by injecting hydrogen into your car engine, the question is whether the cost of the technique will pay for itself.

Also, hydrogen carries about 1/3 the energy of natural gas, so you need more of it to equal the energy that natural gas carries, which is why many solely hydrogen powered cars have these high pressure tanks in them.

Given that natural gas has more energy per cubic foot than hydrogen, even if it were more expensive to purchase, it might make more sense to use natural gas rather than hydrogen in the car.

The canard here is that with the hydrogen solution discussed in this thread, you 'generate' hydrogen yourself from your battery. Therefore, the cost of generating hydrogen is a function of the cost of recharging the battery or the source of the electricity. If using a battery, that means that you are using expensive gasoline to generate the hydrogen via recharging of the battery. If using electricity from an outlet, it would depend on the price of electricity in your area for the volume of hydrogen that is required.

It seems simpler to try this technique with natural gas and see if you observe a boost. If the results are encouraging, try it with hydrogen.

I would caution, however, that I don't think it is a wise idea and you could easily end up burning yourself, your car, or both.

wizardPC · 04-30-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bugbyte

...The canard here is that with the hydrogen solution discussed in this thread, you 'generate' hydrogen yourself from your battery. Therefore, the cost of generating hydrogen is a function of the cost of recharging the battery or the source of the electricity. If using a battery, that means that you are using expensive gasoline to generate the hydrogen via recharging of the battery....

So here's my question: If I'm driving along at 50mph, and then I turn on my headlights, windshield wipers, car stereo, blower fan (not AC, mind you), and carPC, did my gas mileage just drop as a function of that? If so, how much?

I always thought that a 140A alternator had the capacity to output 140A at a certain RPM, not that it absolutely WOULD. I do understand that it can't output the full 140A at idle, but I don't know what RPM range is used for testing, but let's say it's 2500rpm. If you are only using 60A at say 2500rpm, can you not go to using 100A and stay at 2500rpm?

Does that make sense? I want to know what happens to the extra capacity of the alternator if we aren't using it to power accessories or charge the battery.

Bugbyte · 04-30-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by wizardPC

So here's my question: If I'm driving along at 50mph, and then I turn on my headlights, windshield wipers, car stereo, blower fan (not AC, mind you), and carPC, did my gas mileage just drop as a function of that? If so, how much?

Yes, but I don't know how much. You'd have to figure out what the equivalent horsepower draw of the wattage is and the fuel consumption that follows.

Quote: Originally Posted by wizardPC

I always thought that a 140A alternator had the capacity to output 140A at a certain RPM, not that it absolutely WOULD. I do understand that it can't output the full 140A at idle, but I don't know what RPM range is used for testing, but let's say it's 2500rpm. If you are only using 60A at say 2500rpm, can you not go to using 100A and stay at 2500rpm?

Does that make sense? I want to know what happens to the extra capacity of the alternator if we aren't using it to power accessories or charge the battery.

It supplies only what it is asked to supply, so there is no excess load to dump if it isn't getting used. An alternator is a strange beast. Most people think it puts out DC power, but it doesn't. An alternator generates AC current and there is circuitry built into the alternator to rectify the current to 13.5 or whatever it is supposed to put out.

That means that the alternator probably can put out near its max power even at idle.

The voltage on a generator, on the other hand, does vary with RPM. Which explains why cars don't use them anymore but piston powered aircraft often do (the rpm range is much tighter on an aircraft engine -say 1500-3000 rpms or thereabouts)

User Name		Remember Me?
Password