My sig explained (finally..and it's a fricken' novel) - Page 6

R32 JUhl · 03-11-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

Property is not the only investment that can make you money. I don't know what the tax laws are in the states, but in Australia you can also borrow for shares and use that as a tax deduction. The good thing about this is that you can start with a very small amount and the relative returns are as good as property.

I agree you can make money in the stock market. But I have NEVER lost $10,000 in one day in real estate like I have in the market. Yes, I owned Worldcom stock!!!

Secondly, if I spend $1,000 buying shares, I own $1,000 worth of shares. If I want them to increase in value, I can only HOPE they do. By comparison, I can buy a house without spending a dime. I can own $5k to $50k OR MORE in equity without spending a dime of my own money. If I want to increase the value of that real estate, I can spend a few hours doing yard work and increase its value. I can clean the carpets, scrub the floors, etc - all for free and the value of my investmetn. You can't do that in the market.

In addition, if I make $500 on a $1000 stock purchase, my ROI is 50%. If I make $500 on a house that cost me no money to buy, my ROI is infinite.

R32 JUhl · 03-11-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

i thnk the other point not to be missed is credit != debt.

Good point - credit ≠ debt

meddler · 03-11-2005, 09:17 PM

true but you have to initally invest a lot more money in a house. I was talking more about the relative percentage return. $1000 on a $300000 dollar house is quite a small increase percentage wise, but a $10 increase on $1000 worth or shares is a better percentage increase.
Also you have to remeber that when you do work around your house, it does cost money. Fuel for the mower, the garden shears that you used to trim a shrub. Don't forget to calculate your time etc. How much would it cost if you got someone else to fix things around your house? I know this is gettting a little bit anal but you still have to think about things like this too.
The housing market in Sydney has dropped lately. I have lost about $80000 on my house in the last 6-12 months. But I have only lost money when I sell, so I really haven't lost anything. It is still worth more than what I bought it for tho. Same with shares, unless the company goes under, you only lose money when you sell the shares.

@shakes. That's why I said have a $500 credit card that you don't use. just because you have a credit card, that doesn't mean that you use it, even to the point that you cut it up when you get it. It is there just to keep the bank happy if you want to borrow some money for a house etc. Also not all debt is bad, as someone else has mentioned. get someone to pay it off for you. It's even better if it's the government

R32 JUhl · 03-11-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

true but you have to initally invest a lot more money in a house. .

That's what the banks have conditioned you to believe, but that's not true. I just bought a $200,000 house for $155k with no money out of pocket.

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

I was talking more about the relative percentage return. $1000 on a $300000 dollar house is quite a small increase percentage wise.

LOL! No - that's a waste of time.

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

but a $10 increase on $1000 worth or shares is a better percentage increase.

Only if you spent money to buy the house in the first place. If you don't spend any money on the house, the return is infinite.

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

Also you have to remeber that when you do work around your house, it does cost money. Fuel for the mower, the garden shears that you used to trim a shrub. Don't forget to calculate your time etc. How much would it cost if you got someone else to fix things around your house? I know this is gettting a little bit anal but you still have to think about things like this too.

You're absolutely right! But the point is, I CAN affect the return on my real estate investment. There is NOTHING you can do to improve your return on a stock once it's purchased. I can buy commercial real estate for a fraction of what it's worth simply because it does not have full occupancy. I can then "install" tenants and turn around and sell the building for it's REAL value. The only difference is that I'm substantially motivated and skilled enough to find tenants and savvy enough to play the game...

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

The housing market in Sydney has dropped lately. I have lost about $80000 on my house in the last 6-12 months. But I have only lost money when I sell, so I really haven't lost anything.

Now's the time to buy in Sydney, everyone!

Quote: Originally Posted by meddler

Same with shares, unless the company goes under, you only lose money when you sell the shares.

Like my Worldcom stocks.

I like this analogy... Go back to the neighborhood you grew up in. Most likely, the real estate still exists and is worth MANY time what it was when you lived there. Now... take a look at the businesses and see how many of them are still in existence.

Excellent counterpoints!

shakes · 03-21-2005, 06:11 PM

did I hear you say at the meet that you were moving? is that final? Did you get a better job there?

and any luck getting them to pay for your move?

eugenen · 03-21-2005, 06:22 PM

I started out the same way. Got a credit card and would buy something nice then pay it off. Well then I bought an engagement ring, then a week long honeymoon then stuff for an apartment, then bought a house, then crap for the house, then a car for her and finally a new truck for me. I consolidated all the big credit cards down to a personal loan and paid off the little ones but still 75% of my monthly income (and I make decent pay) toward all the big bills but have 22 more payments before the smallest one now will be paid off. I'm thinking of trying to pick up something else to do in the evening (I'm salary now and get off work around 3-4 each day and my wife has to work late or go to school late) since I'm sitting home kind of bored now. Anyone need any part time work in OH in IT or electronics?

wizardPC · 03-21-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

did I hear you say at the meet that you were moving to nashville? is that final? Did you get a better job there?

and any luck getting them to pay for your move?

My parents are from Nashville, and I grew up there. I changed my "home address" on monster.com and amazingly I got huge amounts of hits on my resume. I talked to a guy today about a job up there and I have an interview on friday

We'll see if they impress me at the interview, because the guy didnt make the job sound like a whole lot of fun.

On a side note--I didnt know that was you!

shakes · 03-22-2005, 12:15 AM

yup ... that was me.

hopefully the interview goes well (or another one comes up).

All my contacts in nashville are in the music industry. my company has an office in franklin, but it's not big enough to need any IT staff (I support it). If you're interested in doing non-it work I can see if there's something though. we're a HVAC controls company.

shakes · 03-22-2005, 12:51 AM

actually let me rephrase ... ONE of those guys was me ... not sure if it was the me you're thinking of

I had the silver jeep ... the guy with the two rather thuggish looking guys following me around.

R32 JUhl · 03-22-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

the guy with the two rather thuggish looking guys following me around.

Bodyguards, Jake? Or brothers?

shakes · 03-22-2005, 09:31 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by R32 JUhl

Bodyguards, Jake? Or brothers?

both I think

believe it or not they're my 'little' brothers. Dad always said they'd be bigger than me one day.

R32 JUhl · 03-22-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

both I think

believe it or not they're my 'little' brothers. Dad always said they'd be bigger than me one day.

Are they for rent?

"Little" brothers, huh? I hope you weren't too mean to them when they were growing up!

You mentioned you're in the HVAC controls biz earlier... home or car?

shakes · 03-22-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by R32 JUhl

"Little" brothers, huh? I hope you weren't too mean to them when they were growing up!

Oh I was. But either they have forgotten or let it slide because I toughened them up. I'm still smarter though.

Quote: Originally Posted by R32 JUhl

You mentioned you're in the HVAC controls biz earlier... home or car?

I'm actually in the IT biz ... supporting the networks/PCs for a few offices across the southeast. The company I work for though does commercial HVAC controls. We don't actually run ductwork or install units, someone else does that, we install and program the controls for those units (and controls for security, fire, etc). But I don't know much about HVAC ... I just keep the network up (and browse forums when I should be working)

We do have an automotive division ... but they build seats and interriors (your Golf probably has our seats ... errr ... had) ... and we have a battery division (we own optima, diehard, etc) ... I get optimas at about $50-$70 each

I'm limited to buying two a year though.

R32 JUhl · 03-22-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

I'm still smarter though.

That was the impression I got.

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

I'm actually in the IT biz ... supporting the networks/PCs for a few offices across the southeast. The company I work for though does commercial HVAC controls. We don't actually run ductwork or install units, someone else does that, we install and program the controls for those units (and controls for security, fire, etc)..

So I'm asssuming your company would have the means to repair commercial HVAC systems? We need help, at "the center".

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

But I don't know much about HVAC ... I just keep the network up (and browse forums when I should be working).

Sounds familiar.

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

We do have an automotive division ... but they build seats and interriors (your Golf probably has our seats ... errr ... had) ...

Maybe the normal Golf seats?

The R32 is a completely different beast.

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

and we have a battery division (we own optima, diehard, etc) ... I get optimas at about $50-$70 each

I'm limited to buying two a year though.

Hello, FRIEND!

Wizard, sorry to threadjack.

partyharty · 03-30-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by PatO

The most empowering thing you can have is independance. There's a magic number I've heard in various circles - save up enough money to live for 4 months. Anyone can get a job in 4 months - even a capable out of work software programmer. Bring that in to work with you one day. You begin to laugh at the piddly things your boss asks you to do. Brush off the things the office suckup tells you that you are doing wrong. That's not to say I'm looking to get fired - it's just empowering to think that I could leave at a moments notice and walk around the office, pointing my finger and saying "**** you... **** you... you're cool... **** you... **** you..."

I agree with this 100%. The best job I ever had (and was promoted into management in the end) was working for a company that knew that I could leave at a moments notice. While I was not looking to get fired either I also did not put up with a lot of the crap that most do (because they "have to have" the job). We have 6mo of expenses saved up, we own our home (it is paid off 100%) and we have 2 paid off vehicles. Our debt at this moment is $0 and I am planning on keeping it this way. We have 1 credit card (which is locked in the safe unless something really bad happens) and a debit card that we use from time to time. Mainly it is a cash only thing though. When we started out (5 years ago) we had $6000 in debt (wifes credit cards) and over $20,000 in student loans (both of us). Bottom line I fought to pay off the credit cards (and then I burned them) and we fought and paid off the student loans.

Bottom line if you can get out of working paycheck - paycheck you will be better off. (and many live paycheck to paycheck without thinking about it because the credit card debt can alwasy be paid off later).

Just thought I would chime in a bit with my .02 (and we all know what thats worth :>)

And the funny part about this is I am now unemployeed (company shut down 3 mo. ago and laid off 98% of the workers) and we are living better now then we have in the past (because of the way we live). I am back in school (again) and hoping when I graduate with this degree (criminal justice) that it helps even more.

Chris

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