help from car mechanic types

brendan · 01-18-2007, 12:51 AM

although this may not be the board to ask this on, it is my best bet out of all the other ones im signed up to, soo.

Is it possible for my A/C compressor to completly sieze up while my car has been parked outside (in about minus 8 celcius) for about 3 hours?

My car is a 1994 Ford Taurus Wagon

i had driven to school and it didn't start so smooth in the morning, however nothing appeared the matter, i got to school parked it (school is mere 3 min away) it sat their till lunch (3 hrs) i went home to eat (20 min) and drove back to school, still no signs of impending doom, it then sat their for 3 hrs. I get back to try and go home and it seems to start similarily as bad as it did in the morning, except this time it stalls out. So i restart it, revv it up a bit, then notice smoke. SO i shut it down, pop the hood and notice the serpentine belt is smoking, hmmmk, it's brand new and was replaced a few weeks ago (the one it replaced was also brand new and it snapped out on the highwayside) So then i start it again, and try and figure out whats up, then i realize the A/C compressor won't move and am forced to walk home

The old owner mentioned that when you put the interior fans to A/C or mix (which is defrost and dash vents) something would squeel.

I have read that a low refrigerant level can cause the compressors to sieze, but i din't think it would happen in this manner.

inh · 01-18-2007, 12:56 AM

yea sounds like the clutch is shot.. the refridgerant also contains oil for the compressor, which if you're low could cause damage..

mwmcginn · 01-18-2007, 09:18 AM

Yeah, cold is tough on accessories. The car uses the A/C compressor when you use the defrost too. So, I may have broke your last belt too. The good thing is, since it is a 94, it should have the cheaper 134a refrigerant. Its still going to cost you a few bucks.

MatrixPC · 01-18-2007, 10:17 AM

I am not a mechanic but I do know that low refridgerant can seize the compressor and screw it up like the 2 already said.

mwmcginn · 01-18-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

I am not a mechanic but I do know that low refridgerant can seize the compressor and screw it up like the 2 already said.

Maybe, but if you are low enough on refridgerant, your low pressure switch should have kicked in an protected the system. When it detects that the pressure is low enough, it should have prevented the A/C compressor from ever kicking in.

I think it would be wise to check the clutch and head before replacing the whole thing (of couse it may all be pretty cheap on a Ford Taurus)

BTW: did you get this Taurus from Pinkly Motors?

Always love the Pinkly Taurus.

turbocad6 · 01-18-2007, 11:13 AM

if the compressor itself was seized, it would only give a problem when you engaged it(turned on the ac or defrost)

the problem your having is the clutch bearing.... it may seem like it just happened out of the blue, but the fact that a new belt already broke recently Say's that this has been an issue for a while... the bearing just gets tighter & tighter before it seizes.. the cold has nothing to do with this at all... what your seeing is not all that uncommon really, & a new compressor clutch should solve your problem...

the few rough starts & stalls are easily explained.... a compressor that is good will require almost no horsepower to turn it when the ac is off, & maybe 15-20 hp while ac is on... a seized bearing on the other hand will require more & more hp to turn it, & eventually the limiting factor will be the belt, but if the belt is still holding out while it's partially seized, it can stall the car easily on a cold start...

hope this helps

GeoLogic · 01-18-2007, 12:45 PM

Lack of sufficient lubrication resulting from low/no refrigerant will destroy the system, hands down.

This can happen due to a leak, or sometimes, if your system is based on the old R-12 refrigerant standard, it's not uncommon that some previous oaf will shove in R-134A instead of the system's originally intended R-12. The new refrigerant will not properly lubricate the AC system and eventually you'll suffer catastrophic failure. This I know: It happened to me to the tune of literal melt-down of compressor components during a road trip I was forced to complete under no choice-- Was 100 miles from home and had to get back. I theorized my system had been improperly recharged by one of the previous owners...

I’m not sure when Ford discontinued the use of R-12 (the old standard that blows a hole in the ozone layer above the arctic), but 1995 was the year manufacture of this nasty substance was suspended. So I suppose it’s possible your car is an old R-12 AC system like mine was (a 1990 Geo Prizm GSi, which I still have-- Gotta love the Toyota 4A-GE). There should be a sticker on the underside of your hood that indicates refrigerant type. Alternately, if you look at the date of manufacture stamp on your car's door jam, if it was 1993 then your chances are even better that it was R-12.

AC system failure along the lines you speak are, sorry to say, bad situations. You’ll not likely find repair possible in any shop for less than $1000 (and probably significantly more), so it’s going to have to come down to how badly you want the cooling/dehumidifying action of such a system. Many simply disconnect the drive belt and/or remove the system entirely and live without AC…

Best of luck whatever choice you make-- I feel your pain, having been there!

turbocad6 · 01-18-2007, 01:31 PM

yeah, but when the clutch is disengaged, it don't even matter if the compressor is seized or not... then it will only lock up when engaged.... if it's locked up always, then it's a clutch issue...

I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to disconnect the electrical power to make sure the clutch isn't engaged, but I'm assuming he tried to turn it with the car off, so it's a clutch issue...

add to that, with most modern serpentine belts, it runs more than just the compressor, & in some cases one belt is the whole show... sometimes a shorter belt can be run to eliminate the compressor but this isn't always possible

none of this says anything about the compressor itself being good or not, which may or may not also be the case, but a siezed compressor won't break a belt if the clutch is not engaged

Motorcity · 01-18-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

I am not a mechanic but I do know that low refridgerant can seize the compressor and screw it up like the 2 already said.

Low refridgerant won't seize a compressor, low oil will.

Motorcity · 01-18-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by GeoLogic

Lack of sufficient lubrication resulting from low/no refrigerant will destroy the system, hands down.

This can happen due to a leak, or sometimes, if your system is based on the old R-12 refrigerant standard, it's not uncommon that some previous oaf will shove in R-134A instead of the system's originally intended R-12. The new refrigerant will not properly lubricate the AC system and eventually you'll suffer catastrophic failure. This I know: It happened to me to the tune of literal melt-down of compressor components during a road trip I was forced to complete under no choice-- Was 100 miles from home and had to get back. I theorized my system had been improperly recharged by one of the previous owners...

I’m not sure when Ford discontinued the use of R-12 (the old standard that blows a hole in the ozone layer above the arctic), but 1995 was the year manufacture of this nasty substance was suspended. So I suppose it’s possible your car is an old R-12 AC system like mine was (a 1990 Geo Prizm GSi, which I still have-- Gotta love the Toyota 4A-GE). There should be a sticker on the underside of your hood that indicates refrigerant type. Alternately, if you look at the date of manufacture stamp on your car's door jam, if it was 1993 then your chances are even better that it was R-12.

AC system failure along the lines you speak are, sorry to say, bad situations. You’ll not likely find repair possible in any shop for less than $1000 (and probably significantly more), so it’s going to have to come down to how badly you want the cooling/dehumidifying action of such a system. Many simply disconnect the drive belt and/or remove the system entirely and live without AC…

Best of luck whatever choice you make-- I feel your pain, having been there!

True that the low level of ref. can cuase dammage, however the system needs to be in use for dammage to occur.
In the OP's case, the charge state of his ac system is suspect since we don't know how it worked prior to the clutch failure.
The cost of the Op's repairs could and most likely will be MUCh less than the 1000.00 you claim. In fact a clutch can be less then 100.00 in most cases. The ac compressors used in today's cars are made by a handfull of manufacturers across a huge range of makes and models. You can diy a clutch replacement in under an hour, using a clutch removal tool that most auto parts sotrs cary under their tool loaner or rental programs. Granted, if the system needs a reharge I don't recommend a diy, since you need to really know what you are doing. But if the system was workig properly before the clutch locked up, then it will be a lot less painful when it comes time to get off the wallet and fix it.

brendan · 01-18-2007, 05:08 PM

thank you all!!

I guess il mention this since it seems this shouldn't happen: when i turn on defrost, warm air comes out to blow on the windows, it comes out at whatever temp i have the climte control set at.

so i also went to talk to the tech teachers at school, they said to get a shorter belt and just bypass the A/C. So I measured for new belt and am about to go off to canadian tire to get a new one (i hope) I guess ill just live without A/C wich doesn't matter rite now, ill call a wrecker and get one like that eventually, ill just install it myself.

Thanks again

Rafster · 01-18-2007, 06:20 PM

Anything bad is possible with a Ford/Mercury Taurus/Sable of that vintage...

Believe me... I have a 93 Sable that is already on it's 3rd tranny and 2nd engine + a rebuild....

I just can't afford insurance on anythig else right now...

Rafster

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