Building A Completely Java Based Front End - Page 4

cyberwizzard · 04-04-2008, 02:53 PM

Thumbs up for the effort, we need more Java based frontends.

I'm currently working on a car system myself but it more like the whole package than a frontend (unless you consider Xorg a backend ^^). I started with a complete modular design but dropped that for 2 reasons:
1. I want to tightly integrate all components: if the navigation speaks, turn down the music - if a call comes in, pause the music etc.
2. Design speed: the original design to do everything modular became too damn complicated without even coding a single line. By the time I have a finished piece of software I probably have ideas to refactor everything into a more generic framework.

I am looking for 3 things in my car pc: music, navigation and phone control. All the other fancy features I see around are possibly awesome for version 2.0 (if I ever get there) but to replace my current head unit + car kit + TomTom, those are the three items I need the most.

Enough about my little project. I'm very anxious to see how you get stuff solved as I'm running into much of the same problems. One tip to get awesome multi-media support: use the XineLib Java bindings. The downside is that you will require linux to run on unless you tie it together with cygwin or something...

And a final kick to the people who hate Java: I'm using openGL accelerated animations, using Mesa (software rendering as I broke native openGL atm - aka slow *** 3D) I use ~40% CPU on a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 rendering between 350 and 500 fps. Yes I know thats insane so usually I cap it off to 25 fps which then draws (including Xine playback) 3% - 5% CPU. I would say thats pretty respectable (for 800x600 rendering 25 components with animation and alpha layers).

silvi4000 · 04-04-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by cyberwizzard

Thumbs up for the effort, we need more Java based frontends.

I'm currently working on a car system myself but it more like the whole package than a frontend (unless you consider Xorg a backend ^^). I started with a complete modular design but dropped that for 2 reasons:
1. I want to tightly integrate all components: if the navigation speaks, turn down the music - if a call comes in, pause the music etc.
2. Design speed: the original design to do everything modular became too damn complicated without even coding a single line. By the time I have a finished piece of software I probably have ideas to refactor everything into a more generic framework.

I am looking for 3 things in my car pc: music, navigation and phone control. All the other fancy features I see around are possibly awesome for version 2.0 (if I ever get there) but to replace my current head unit + car kit + TomTom, those are the three items I need the most.

Enough about my little project. I'm very anxious to see how you get stuff solved as I'm running into much of the same problems. One tip to get awesome multi-media support: use the XineLib Java bindings. The downside is that you will require linux to run on unless you tie it together with cygwin or something...

And a final kick to the people who hate Java: I'm using openGL accelerated animations, using Mesa (software rendering as I broke native openGL atm - aka slow *** 3D) I use ~40% CPU on a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 rendering between 350 and 500 fps. Yes I know thats insane so usually I cap it off to 25 fps which then draws (including Xine playback) 3% - 5% CPU. I would say thats pretty respectable (for 800x600 rendering 25 components with animation and alpha layers).

Would you publish what you have done up till now?
I would really like to give it a look.
Maybe a quick video on youtube if you dont feel like posting your sources.

cyberwizzard · 04-05-2008, 09:23 AM

I'd love to :-)

Right now I'm working on the final screens for the music player. I'm waiting for somebody to help me figure out how to access the visualizer from xinelib.

As soon as I got those 2 points sorted I'll make a demo video and put it up on Youtube. I haven't decided if I'm gonna release the code or not but currently only half the classes are documented so it won't do anybody any good either ^-^.

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Edit: right now I use custom rendering for the components (to get the translucent effects) but I don't use 'real' skinning: only the position and size of components are determined from XML files (I had chosen for the same percentage based positioning I saw somebody suggest somewhere when I found this thread). I'm thinking about using SVG based skins as they would resize nicely for each resolution and ratio. Just another item on my todo list that is slowing me down ;-)

coffeejolts · 04-05-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by cyberwizzard

I am looking for 3 things in my car pc: music, navigation and phone control.

I think that's pretty much the price of admission for any front end. Music (sans DRM) is easy. Phone control is a little harder, but possible. The darned navigation is very difficult, because all the maps are copyrighted, and existing nav apps / sdks are not cross platform, so you can't just integrate one. Sure, you can do a mashup, but then everyone using it would need mobile internet, and I don't think most of us have that.

Quote: Originally Posted by cyberwizzard

use the XineLib Java bindings. The downside is that you will require linux to run on unless you tie it together with cygwin or something...

If it ties me to an OS, there's no point- and tying it together with cygwin would be a support nightmare. I don't want to release anything my grandma couldn't install.

cyberwizzard · 04-05-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by coffeejolts

The darned navigation is very difficult, because all the maps are copyrighted, and existing nav apps / sdks are not cross platform, so you can't just integrate one. Sure, you can do a mashup, but then everyone using it would need mobile internet, and I don't think most of us have that.

Indeed, I have a cunning plan to tackle that one but it will take some time to work out the details. Aka its on hold for now.

Quote: Originally Posted by coffeejolts

If it ties me to an OS, there's no point- and tying it together with cygwin would be a support nightmare. I don't want to release anything my grandma couldn't install.

2 things:
1: Most people that come here know how to strip an OS and install dependencies, if Xine would be a dependency, people should be able to tackle it. Even better, if it is actually linked properly it would just sit in a directory in the archive or installer inside the application directory. No installers, no dll's, no copying certain versions of obscure .ocx files - nothing of the sorts.
If (and note the 'if' as I have to test if it will work on Xine as well) thats the case, its more likely that grandma can install Ubuntu and my application (with everything on board) than a random Windows frontend which requires Media Player X, Routing Software Y and bluetooth dongle Z from manufacturer A.
2. I target linux at the moment as I have zero confidence in Windows XP in my car. I am a master student computer science with years of experience of wrecking computers and Redmond and me don't come along very well. Tbh, I'd rather put Vista on a car pc than XP but my main concern is start up times and frankly, Windows is just slow... But each his own ofcourse and the lucky Windows users can opt for tools like StreetDeck - which looks pretty awesome :-0

But as I stated, Windows can be supported later on by means of Cygwin or a simple switch of the backend (As long as the API doesn't change, the application won't know which program is playing the music anyway).

MindDrive · 04-05-2008, 10:47 AM

u remember the teacher in the peanuts cartoons? whaw whaw whaw whawhaw..... thats about the jist of what i just understood, BUT if it works and works good, then continue on man... ive recently been plugging away at testing and testing and downloading and and and all these other front ends (RR, FP, etc) and the music/media control with the library's are sub addequite (sp) meaning, through all its hated glory, the way media player 9 is set up with its library (playlists etc) is PERFECT in my opinion, playlist "list" on the left, selected, whats "in that playlist" on the right.... easy... simple... good....

how you have this:

is a perfect example of what im talking about... on the light green side (left side) have the playlists "listed" and on the dark green side (right side) have the contents of the selected "current" playlist.

now objectively, i know only HTML and a "LITTLE" php, therefore i can offer no basis on how this would work if capable, as soon as i start looking at program code, my brain locks up and poof somehow the rest of the functioning synapsis get sidetracked and i trash any knowledge of reading the code to begin with and get stuck in a proverbial loop and nadda... so if youve gotten as far as you have, GREAT... i have no idea what youve done but its looking useable!!!!!!

eth0 · 05-31-2008, 03:22 AM

would any of you guys know how to embed an external application within a java window (hide the title, frame border)? just wondering how to do that before i start on the frontend, coz i'd like to rely on an external media player like vlc or mplayer to playback audio and video since they have good support for the various media formats.

currently working on my own gps app, still have to figure out how to calculate the shortest path...long way to go.

cyberwizzard · 05-31-2008, 06:15 AM

I'm not sure you can, unless the application has support for it (for example, rendering to a given hWnd would get you there).

The other option is to use the API from the OS (Windows/Linux) and use that to either move the window to where you need it or actually embed it.

I'm not sure its even possible but this should get you started

Maheriano · 05-31-2008, 09:50 AM

Wow, looks like we got a good discussion going here. There are multiple free Java based GPS applications, Gypsylon is one:

http://www.tegmento.org/gpsylon/screenshots.html

eric_barcus · 05-31-2008, 10:13 AM

jsut stumbled apon this today great work so far, what are you workign on right now?

benedums · 06-01-2008, 05:43 PM

Here are some screen caps of the media player I've been working on.

Now Playing:

Library and playlists:

It is hosted on sourceforge under https://sourceforge.net/projects/jmmplayer/

The idea is to have a media player which is mobile friendly, skinable, and pluginable. The buttons on the left are where the plugins will be launched. Default ones will include a Music Player, Video Player & Picture Viewer. Others could be Sirius or XM players, AM/FM Radio, etc..
I'm currently working on figuring out the plugin feature.
The music player is based on javazoom components and is currently the only functional add-in.
I am still evaluating which video player api to use but you can see the basic controls.
Also there will be a picture viewer that allows you to view a slide show of the pictures in your "my pictures" folder.

The skin feature uses SkinLF (Skin Look & Feel) where each component (fonts, buttons, sliders, dividers, trees, lists, etc...) can be "Skined" with any image. I've created skins with larger font, buttons, and slider handles which are more touch screen friendly.

Maheriano · 06-05-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by eric_barcus

jsut stumbled apon this today great work so far, what are you workign on right now?

I'm actually working on moving again, sorry but this project as well as my webcam application have to be put on hold. I'm driving about 3000 miles to move back to where I was before here so it's taking up most of my time and money.

And benedum, why didn't you use the Java Media Framework for your project?

benedums · 06-05-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maheriano

And benedum, why didn't you use the Java Media Framework for your project?

I actually started this before JMF was released and at the time javazoom had support for the majority of audio media and still does, so that's what I stayed with. Also JMF didn't seam to be as advanced as the javazoom components.
I am considering JMF for the video portion of JMP but thus far I've been focusing on perfecting the audio player.

coffeejolts · 06-09-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Maheriano

And benedum, why didn't you use the Java Media Framework for your project?

JMF is dead, It has not been updated in over five years. It will be replaced soon by the Java Media Components API. Until then, any work on Java media playback is premature, IMO.

Here is a presentation from JavaONE 2008 that explains more.

http://dsc.sun.com/learning/javaoneo...df/TS-6509.pdf

benedums · 06-09-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by coffeejolts

JMF is dead, It has not been updated in over five years. It will be replaced soon by the Java Media Components API. Until then, any work on Java media playback is premature, IMO.

Here is a presentation from JavaONE 2008 that explains more.

http://dsc.sun.com/learning/javaoneo...df/TS-6509.pdf

I've read some (very little) topics on the new JMC but since it's still under development and javazoom was stable I went with that.
I'm not against converting to a different media engine if it has better performance and compatibility but for now javazoom does the job for the audio playback.

I also tried to develop JMP so that upgrading/changing the media player would not be that difficult, but it's not as simple as changing an import...