PocketPC as a Touch Screen Replacement - Page 2

nkotch · 04-10-2006, 01:31 PM

Yea, or just share the files/folders over a network and then map them on the pocket pc unit. Originally was going to try and do it that way --> just put laptop in car w/ all the media, and use my PDA to connect to it over network and play the media from there. But my PDA is a little older (HP iPaq 2215) and I've always had problems with it on networks, sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, bluetooth sometimes times out, etc.... So decided to save myself the frustruation and make a dedicated carPC and just use the PDA for personal organizer, mp3 player, and use to get on internet or check mail through my cell when I don't have my laptop.

Since I've got the carPC going good now I think I might try and find a neat way to use it as a remote for passengers when in the car with one of those media control programs.

Mechanic · 04-11-2006, 04:42 AM

Think out of the box for a minute here, and consider what the real capabilities can be. AIVMS features an optional software package called AIVMS PPC Remote, that provides complete control of the AIVMS artificial intelligence using any pocket PC. It connects via TCP/IP, and can control AIVMS from anywhere in the world if the Pocket PC is connected to the Internet. You can also use Bluetooth or a USB sync cable/cradle to control your AIVMS equipped car-pc with a Pocket PC, since Active Sync will provide a TCP connection to your system. Here is a screen shot page showing the home automation capabilities of an AIVMS system being controlled remotely by a pocket PC.
AIVMS can perform just about any task on a computer that a human can do, and since a Pocket PC with the PPC Remote software can control AIVMS, it instantly becomes a very powerful little device.

Genesisfactor · 04-11-2006, 05:40 PM

@ sama...but streaming framerates suck (i've done that). Also, fi you share a drive, you can map the drive using Resco FIle Explorer. But the biggest problem with doing this, and the msot attractive feautre of Mechanic's softwares, is that the sound plays on the computer itself; it doesn't in Remote desktop, though that can be hopefully changed.

Right now, i'm still messing with the possibilities of remote desktop. So far i've been very happy wth the results. My next test is to see if i can remotely access one desktop and then, from there, remotely access another one. Why? Because most likely, with the PPC or the desktop, i'll want to access my home desktop. This is also why i want a secondary screen and input system: it gives me the choice to have better control over the laptop and the remote desktops

@ Mechanic, that's really interesting software. However, it uses skype...would skype work on an adhoc system? If it doesn, then we'd need all the time internet access to do what we're doing. Ofcourse, i did read thought he page, but lately i've been known to miss stuff. Please let me know.

All in all, as feature full as it may be (when i get my own house, i'll be using that

), i'm not sure if tit has some fo the features needed (i'll go into that when i have time, still a damn fine program though). I really want to try it, iit a free download (doesn't look like it will be)

Mechanic · 04-11-2006, 06:30 PM

You should consider one important aspect of a car-pc; when you are driving, you cannot easily manipulate the typical Pocket PC remote access software since the screen elements are extremely small. This is the reason we use those large rather plain buttons in our PPC remote control software. Not only are they easy to see, they are large enough to permit manipulation using a finger touch; they do not require using a stylus where smaller elements would. Additional "user defined" buttons can even execute macros based on recorded user activities.

Skype does require at least a semi-stable connection to the Internet in order for it to "fully" function. Such things as text chat messages sent while the client is offline are stored and transmitted to the client once an Internet connection has been established. It is not a substitute for a cell phone, but it offers features that a typical cell phone would not such as video phone and conference call hosting. A mobile video phone presented on even a 7" screen is actually more impressive than it sounds.

We do base most of our software development around our hardware, the VN1 Server, which has persistent Internet connection options (EV-DO, EDGE, 1x-rtt, etc), and serves this connection out over its WiFi access point. It offers fall back to an available WiFi internet connection, which it can also serve out to other authorized users in the local vacinity.

You can download both AIVMS and the PPC remote software directly from our website.

nkotch · 04-11-2006, 06:59 PM

@Genesisfactor: In remote desktop you can get the remote desktop's sound to play locally.... When you bring up the connection thing, just hit "Options", then go to the "Local Resources" tab and under sound you can choose "Bring to this computer".

I haven't used it in a while but I though that it dropped the quality of the audio a good bit, don't think it streamed at "normal" quality.... but that could depend on what settings you have in remote desktop or if you're connecting over a LAN or internet....

Mechanic · 04-11-2006, 07:04 PM

Remote desktop is not a very good application for client/server audio. Pocket PC Software such as a remoteamp or a TCP broadcast client are much better at this task.

AIVMS includes TCP broadcast streaming server capabilty, allowing you to play your mp3 collection over your vehicle network as a stream, which any decent client such as Winamp or windows media play can access. You could have ten people with laptops or pocket pc's in or around your car, all listening to the audio broadcast from a single VN1 server. Of course you do not have to be right next to your car to access the stream, WiFi has an outdoor transmit distance of over 1000 ft, heck I use a little WiFi equipped iPaq and can listen to the broadcast from the VN1 in my car from within a shopping mall or grocery store (I hate grocery stores and the stupid music they subject you to).
The DJ mode of our artificial intelligence was specifically designed around this TCP audio broadcast capabilty. It combines entertainment with important information in a format that has worked for several generations. Instead of having to look at a small screen to obtain information such as traffic incidents or weather while you are driving, the information is simply announced within the broadcast by the AIVMS DJ. Here is an example where the AI announces the time and introduces the next song from an mp3 collection: she could have just as easily included her custom traffic incident, news, or weather reports. The AI automatically obtains its information for these reports from the internet when it senses an active internet connection. The song intros can be user defined, or you can just allow the AI to obtain information about the artist for its song intros from the internet.
Then there is the feature that allows anyone to call into your mobile broadcast from anywhere in the world (for free) to make announcements or song requests, but Im sure you get the idea.

Genesisfactor · 04-11-2006, 08:47 PM

I just realized that what i'm trying to do and what sama is trying to do is very similiar in attack, but differnt in our intended end results. The key difference s taht i desire the PPCto be the primary front end with a secondary system still connected to the car puter. Sama just wantts the PPC and that's it (plase correct me if i'm wrong)

I Agree RD is not the best for streaming audio, but the problem isn't as simple as low bandwidth (if that applies), for the pocekt PC. I have use RD on the PPC and an R51. On the PPC, it claims that the sound drivers are not correct or not installed, which it obviously will as PPC sound drivers aren't installed on the computer, although that may or may not be the case. However, on the R51, it plays fine.

The two solutions for that woudl be to have to computer render the stream using windows media encorder/the above mentioned programs or whatever or have a seperate folder with PPC sized content. Both will do the job. Still, the audio needs to come from the computer.

One thing you have to remember, and this is the most important part of the project is that the pocket pc is just a wireless screen/input device.

That should satisfy Sama's needs. Now, sama, if you want me to make my own thread, i shall, but i didn't want anyone double posting because wat' good for you is also good for me and viceverse, so if you will let me share you thread, that would be amazing

One other thing Sama...

If you have wifi and GPRS internet access and the like, and want the pocket PC to be your ONLY computer, then i would state that you are doing it through wrong way and should rethink a few areas of your project (my opinion). If you open up a port through your router, you can remote connect to your PC at home and have it stream and do whatever form there. Now, instead of sprining for all the PC equipment and whatnot, you can also plop in a 2-8GB memory card or have a USB harddrive in the car to store any movies and music you want on call, ie without the streaming or computer's help (this will allow you to have more capable control over the media. Then, just run your audio through a head unit and you're done. That's it. I mean, with a phone PPC, unless you're un-able to take a call while on the internet, then your'e good to go. And if you have to disconnect, your PC is always aon call to recoonect at any time as long as its on. The benifits of this are as follows

Your boot up time is virtually instant
Your boot up time for your secondary content is about as long as it takes to log into to your computer
You don't have to worry about hacking up your sound system, which youv'e already done though
Your carpc is mobile, easily powered, and still almost a fully functional computer
You get all the afroementioned benifits that you wanted above, and none of the cons really change either cause if you're mugged...that sucks. The only other benifit i can think of is if your car is stolen or in an accident, your Phone PPC MUCH cheaper that a full carputer system and probably replacable by insurance

No matter what cool trick you come up with, the speed of the device is the bottleneck for the speed of the computer as your preceive it. At that point, you might as well save space and log in remotely. My suggestion. Honestly, part of me wouldnt' take it as maybe one day, if i were you, i'd attach a cheap LCD in the car anyways.

Also, Mechanic, then this front end would be superb for him with the voice activation when coupled with maybe another program or two.

-------------------------------------
Now on to my design...

The problem that we face in building a system is not streaming it to the pocket PC, whcih defeats the purpose of putting a mid or large system in there, but having control of the desktop while having the audio and video play on the computer. If the pocket PC had a blank screen during playback, except for the control buttons, that would actually be preferable, in my eyes.

The reason for that is that if i wanted to stream video, there's NO WAY i'd want a video that was meant for an 800x600 screen to be rendered and played on a low power device with a 320x240 or 640x480 screen. Even on an SD card, playing a clip larger than 640x480 on my old x5, with its 400mhz processor, was visually painful at times. BMW, with its movies, made a PPC sized version that was less than a tenth of the size of the version used for the desktops. It played wonderfully, although there were occasions when it was choppy. If i wanted it streamed, i'd encode all the video to that size (which i've done and there's a DRAMATIC difference).

Honestly, the best way i see it is this: When i open up a media program, be in Windows Media, Media monkey, Creative Player, the computer sends an instruction to open up a player control on the Pocket PC with the normal buttons OR streams the media, at pocket PC size, WHILE playing the file on the desktop. WHen the player controls are minimized on the pocket PC, the media window is closed or minimized or taken out of focus (preferable), until it is needed again (brought back into focus). Power may be an issue, but seriously, not here with a Centrino 1.5 Ghz system, so i perosnally don't care. I'll just have to juice up the RAM a bit.

Basically i want seemless contorl via pocket pc WITH the ability to input and view data like a regular carputer. There are reasons for this

@nkotch, i'l try that in a few minutes, i JUST read what you had posted. THANK YOU. I'll be connecting over an Ad hoc LAN AND i'll be conntecting abgain to the home conputer over the internet, but then, in that case, i wouldn't need to shut it all off.

@ samas
http://theillustratednetwork.mvps.or...eshooting.html

The best tutorial i've seen on remote desktop as it basically covers EVERY situation

. For other software, see the things mechanic and toerhs have sent you.

If you really want me to start my own thread (i dont' want to hijack your thread wiht my perosnal questions and needs), i shall, if people will comment and suggest as they do on yours.

TO all: i just wanted so say thansk alot for your help thus far

. Atleast for me, you're REALLY helping this project come along with your input and suggestions. Just know, when i challenge what you say, its kinda like a debate in ancient Athens, because i do the same thing to myself when i come up with an idea. I just want to wieght the pros and cons, get a great feel for everything, and get the functionality i desire/orignally imagined. Once again, thank you and keep em coming

Genesisfactor · 04-11-2006, 09:01 PM

@ nkotck, hehe, i think you got what i wante backwards, BUT, you told me how to UNDO that...problem is i can't see where to undo that on the Pocket PC (i did figure it out on the laptop, great instructions). Any ideas?

Also, what you're doing is kinda what i'm doing as well, whih rocks. Was the BT drpping out the hardest part of the connection? SInce i'm using adhoc wifi, i don't think i'll have that problem. It does make a great remote aroudn the house, i love it, which is why i want it in the car. There was a post about making it so that you could access the compute while its remotely connected, but i think i did it wrong or something because it didn't help at all.

nkotch · 04-11-2006, 09:13 PM

LOL.... well after I read your above post I kinda realized you were doing RD from the pocket pc and now I'm not sure if it works the same..... not sure if it'll send the audio to the pda. I know on my laptop it's an option in the remote desktop client.... but I don't remember any similiar settings on the client on my pocket pc.

This has kinda gotten me back interested in playing with my pda and using it in the car to some degree. Will have to sit down and figure out how to get the network stuff (wifi and over bluetooth) to be more stable. Also looking at different audio streaming software I can put on the car's computer to stream to my pda or a friends laptop or something.

Genesisfactor · 04-12-2006, 07:25 AM

wifi is by far more stable. My problem is to keep the audio OFF the PPC, not get it on. It's already on, and that is NOT good:P. You get a driver/device error on the pocket pc. Also, the tunes should play on the host computer, atelast for the design in general.

Hehe,a dn get that sucker out of your pocket and play with it!! anyone with a pocket pc shoul dbe reading this site because those little things are powerful enough to BE a carpc, so they're definitely capable enough to control one! The onyl con is the slow link and refresh times (with the R51 its instant and desktop like, with the pocket pc, its a bit choppy whent scrolling around the scrreen)

Genesisfactor · 04-12-2006, 03:00 PM

Very happy

. Linking worked. I have a picture of it going through 2 remote desktops (the laptop). Hopefully the pocket PC can perform the same

. I'll post up the picutre when i get the chance.

double-0-newb · 05-03-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by nkotch

LOL.... well after I read your above post I kinda realized you were doing RD from the pocket pc and now I'm not sure if it works the same..... not sure if it'll send the audio to the pda.

Could you not simply run audio straight from your PC/server into your HU/amp? I am not clear on why you would want to run sound from your PC to your PPC then out to your car speakers.....but I porbably missed something. ~edit: re-read previous posts, sorry.

Great read so far.

Genesisfactor · 05-05-2006, 12:01 AM

a freind of mine stumbled on this possible solution that woudl work very well in car. You know us HUD kiddies...we're on a mission

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...&postcount=188

nkotch · 05-05-2006, 12:20 AM

That's actually pretty neat. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make a widget that could send commands to something like Road Runner or another front end.

I've only got a VIA EPIA mobo in the car so if I start running Konfabulator on it as well I'll probably be stretching what it can handle....hmm......

Genesisfactor · 05-05-2006, 12:26 AM

hehem no offense, but my 600Mhx P3-M laptop can handle more stuff better than a VIA can. I saw one in action and wasn't too impressed:P.

Se eif it can though, and if you can create a module to run in Media Engine or soemthing. I mean, pretty much, THIS IS your front end, atleast if you do it right. The main screen could just be a feedback screen. I mean, at this point, it woudl be great to make widgets for playlists, movies, GPS and just have the program open and make a side bar for all teh widgets until needed, OSX style (AND THEY HAVE A WIDGET FOR THAT TOO!!).

Only thing that annoys me about it is most have to do with iTunes and what not. I didn't like iTunes, but hey, now i'm being forcedin to mainstream society, as hard as i fight it....

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