archaic0

I bought the M2-ATX 160W Intelligent DC-DC PSU from the store here and it's acting funny. (I did not get the P4 optional power cable since I'm running an Athlon and didn't think I needed it, was I wrong there?)

I temp installed it Sunday night and it worked beautifully. I cleaned things up and buttoned it all up and it worked fine that night in all my testing up and down. Monday morning however, the PC did not turn on.

I only have one jumper on it, and it's in the B position for 5 second on and 2 hour hard off.

I checked the PC briefly (I was pulled over on the road side) and the CPU fan on the PC was on, but the PC was not booted.

That afternoon on my lunch break from work, when I got in my car and started it up, the computer came on fine again. I wondered if maybe there was a loose wire or something and Monday night I rechecked all my wires and they all appeared to be fine and the PC was starting up and shutting down perfectly again.

Tuesday morning, the same thing happened. In the morning, the PC did not boot, but later in the afternoon and all night the PC starts up and shuts down just fine. Each time it does not boot, the CPU fan does come on though.

Again this morning, the same thing happened. Only CPU fan comes on in the morning, but by lunch time the PC boots fine.

I'm beginning to think one of two things. Either the PSU is bad, or environmental factors are effecting it's operation. But I don't know what to check next. If the PSU is bad why would it only have problems in the mornings? And consistent problems only at that time?

It's a little cold here in the mornings, but only 50 degrees F or so, so it can't be that, right? Besides, this morning it was 50 degrees, and right now it's only 55 and the PC is working again.

I'm at a loss... anybody have any ideas?

PC Specs:
Biostar MicroATX MB - Geforce 6100-M7
(w/ onboard sound and video)
Athlon 64 3000+
Sony CDRW
WD 400G SATA HD
512 RAM

No floppy, no PCI cards.
Only one USB in use to the touch screen

2k1Toaster

You are using a full blown processor, with the cheapest lowest end unit, without the P4 connector?!

It is not there just for decoration.

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archaic0

Cheapest lowest end unit? You mean the PSU? The M2-160 is the biggest they sell that is a combined unit.

When the PC powered on and stayed on for several hours while using optical drive I considered it sufficient.

Do you think my morning problem makes sense because of that lack of power? But then why is it only in the morning hours that I have a problem?

Is there any way for me to order JUST that cable? Because I can't see how to do that in the store...

2k1Toaster

Lots of things effect power draw. When the cold PC boots, it uses the most power. Everything turns on full. Not until the OS loads does power consumption go down. So once it is on, it will work fine. It probably just needs an extra boost for booting. If it indeed does as you say. A warm boot (before the M2 cuts power completely, but still off) doesn't use as much because the mobo still knows how it is going to regulate the power. Take away the power to the mobo, it runs off its battery, and next time it boots it must ask each device again how much juice it wants.

And yes the M2 is the lowest other than the M1 which I am not even sure why it is still sold considering the M2 is like $8 more....

But generally it goes:
M1 <-- Most basic and problem prone, but cheap
M2
Opus 120
Opus 150
Opus 250
DS-ATX & Opus 320 <-- Best 2 for different reasons, but pricy

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archaic0

I believe the other PSUs were not an option because I have a MicroATX case. The Opus ones are full ATX size, aren't they? (I'd look myself, but the store is, as usual, not available)

I've sent an email to sales about buying the P4 cable by itself, but no reply yet.

I've been building PCs off and on for years, but I've always built full on ATX standard setups with a PSU that is far more than needed. Minimal power setups are new to me.

I haven't done an SLI setup either so I haven't dealt with the high end power draw either.

Thanks for the info.


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2k1Toaster

The store is hosted on different servers than the forum. I believe the store is offsite, while the forums are onsite.

But anyways, my point is you are not using a "minimal power setup". You are using a maximum power setup, with the minimal power input. The M2 can handle P4's and full on AMD's, but that requires the use of a laptop HD, low RAM, limited USB devices and next to nothing else being drawn.

The M2 is not reccommended to power high end setups. That is why it is only $80, and not $220. And a standard case will fit one of the opus power supplies I believe. But you usually select the components (like the PSU) over the aesthetics like the (case).

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archaic0

What I meant by minimal power setup is a setup in which very small power changes are important. Usually I've got a full 120V kicking out 400 to 600 Watts so whatever I plug in will be fine. (asside from the SLI setups and the like).

My phsical case choice and form factor (micro-ATX) was forced by the amount of room in the car. It's in the trunk, I don't care what it looks like. But I don't want to lose one cubic foot more than I have to from my already small trunk.

Regardless of price, the constraint is size, not price.

The store guys shot me an email with a link for that cable so I'll try that and see if that fixes it. I've got to believe that if it does then the M2-160 is sufficient for my setup since the PC boots and runs fine as it is at night.

For as limited as it is to only not want to boot in the morning, it has to be less than 1 watt shy.

Thanks again for your help.

cMags

http://store.mp3car.com/ShoppingCart...Code=CBL%2D014

P4 cable is $6.


As an aside, why is the M2 considered lower on the chain than the Opus 120 and 150? Don't know much about the 120, but the 150 will only handle 5A on 12V, while the M2 does 8. I was having an issue with my 150 not powering my Celeron 2.4GHz since it draws 61W (on 12V), so I figured the M2 with a full 84W on 12V would be a better PSU for my app... This is not true?

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DarquePervert

Does your motherboard have that 4-pin connector on it? If so, you need the 4-pin 12v connector, regardless of the CPU you're using.


If you were able to boot the PC up without the 4-pin 12v cable, then you obviously don't need it.


Personally, I think your system is pushing it for the M2ATX.
The CPU by itself can draw as much as 90w, which would be pulled mostly from the 12v rail. Add in everything else you have, and I'm pretty certain you're overloading the PSU.

Now, why would it boot the PC up sometimes and not others? Who knows...






Case size has nothing to do witht he capabilities or power output.

I've sent an email to sales about buying the P4 cable by itself, but no reply yet.


You're hardly running a "minimal power setup".


Any of the DC-DC power supplies sold int he store should fit into a microATX case. I recommend the DSATX for it's advanced programmability. The Opus 250w and 320w units offer more power output, though.


1w can make or break a system.

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archaic0

That was my thought exactly, but that evidently is not the case.


Well as for "everything else" that's the rest of the main board, optical drive, and a hard drive. The optical drive is rated at 1.5A on the 5V rail and 2.5A on the 12v rail so another 30 watts on the 12V. The hard drive is rated at .7 on the 5V and .75 on the 12V. So another 9 watts on the 12. So we're up to roughly 129 Watts on the 12 rail. That doesn't sound like I'm pushing the 160 all that far to me.


Never said it did. You're missing what I said. My focus was case size and not power output. My case size went from an itx, to a micro-atx because of cpu power needs but no bigger than a micro-atx because I've hit a size limitation.


As I explained above, what I meant by 'minimal power' was to describe a situation where every watt counts. Not that I was USING minimal power, but that the smallest change in power draw can hurt. This is my first time operating on a budget when it comes to power. Like Apollo 13 I guess...


My Micro-atx case is just over 3 inches tall (the CPU fan touches the case top) and the power supply space is only 2 inches wide while it's about 4 inches deep. The M2 fits exactly in this space with no room to spare other than height. The other power supplies looked like they were modeled after a typical ATX power supply and would by far not fit. For example, the dimensions of the opus 150 is 4 inches by 5 inches and I'd have to make some kind of external enclosure for it to use it.

Advanced programmability doesn't have any place in my setup. I need an on/off with the car controller and any old capasitor/relay trigger setup will do. Others may need it complicated, but I do not.

If the M2 won't power my system, then I'll upgrade it. I don't have any problem with that. I just thought I got the right tool for the job and it seems like I actually did only I didn't set it up right. My cable shipped already so that problem will be resolved soon.


I have my wired in place of the power button and don't use the power button at all.

My situation is that the M2 does not throw it's switch sometimes... or maybe it does, but the PC isn't getting enough juice to respond.

Thanks though, I appreciate the input!

sporty_drew

I'm pretty sure the 12 volt rail can only put out 8 amps. So your looking at having only 96 watts on the 12 volt rail.

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2k1Toaster

you are drawing way too much. I am surprised it has even worked at all.

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RawsonDR

I'm not surprised it has worked at all and I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if it continues to work. I'm not trying to say that power limits are impossible - just that there's no reason to jump ship if your problem can otherwise be solved. So try your P4 cable and hope for the best.

My secondary advice to you is to underclock/undervolt the CPU if your BIOS has options for it. Otherwise you can try Clockgen.

archaic0

Does anyone have a difinitive source for power draw for CPUs? Every other piece of my system has the power draw written right on it, but not the CPU.

Athlon 64 3000+

I've been googling, but haven't found a good source yet.

archaic0

OK, I found the doc from AMD finally.

It shows 60 Amps at 1.5 Volts. What I don't know is how it gets the 1.5 volts and what rail that amperage gets billed to. I also don't know what the mainboard and it's components draw and from what rails.

I see the M2 has one 5V rail that is rated at 8A and one 12V rail that is also rated at 8A.

Power draw that I know:

Optical: 1.5A on the 5V rail and 2.5A on the 12v rail
Hard drive: .7A on the 5V and .75A on the 12V

So I've got 2.2A (11W) on the 5V and 3.25A (39W) used there.

If I need a different PSU, then my point here is exactly how many amps do I need on each rail to run properly? Without that answer, then it's futile to just buy PSUs willy nilly hoping it will work.

I think really at this point I'd be better off to go back to my power inverter and the stock PSU, but use a stand alone controller to flip the power switch.