Mp3car Home Page The mp3Car.com Forums The mp3Car.com Store The mp3Car.com Blog About mp3Car.com    

Sponsored links

Go Back   MP3Car.com > Mp3Car Technical > Power Supplies

Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-02-2008, 06:23 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
A real basic wiring question

Would someone please be kind enough to explain to me what the best way to do this would be.
I have a emergency light bar which I would like to install on my van. It needs a 5 switch, switch box to run it for example one switch for rotating lights 2nd for flashers 3rd left alley light 4th right alley light and last take down lights.
So I want to use the switches that have back lighting and that will have 3 tabs off the back 2 for the hot and 1 for the ground.
The question is do you think I could run a common hot to feed all these switches and a common ground. I'm trying to do most of the wiring on my workbench so when the weather breaks I can carry it out, mount it and only install a few wires. Plus I'm looking for a nice clean install.
Thanks for the help.
I'm going to try to attach a picture of a similar switch box to help set the picture for what I am trying to do.
Attached Images
  
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
Sponsored links

Old 04-02-2008, 06:29 PM   #2
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Here is the back of the current box I have. Hope you can give me a little input, I firgured if anyone would know you guy's would.
Attached Images
   
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 10:04 PM   #3
Variable Bitrate
 
billmee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 246
Instead of short wires to a common lug just daisy chain all the grounds together.

Also what is the power or current requirements maybe you could use a lighter gauge.
billmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 10:11 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Quote: Originally Posted by billmee View Post
Instead of short wires to a common lug just daisy chain all the grounds together.

Also what is the power or current requirements maybe you could use a lighter gauge.

If I were to do something like this I was under the impression that the switches after the first would not have power unless the first was on. The last three are flood lights forward and left and right. I wouldn't want a constant power to them while the light bar is on, that would be to look for house numbers or something like that.
Is this what you had in mind?
Attached Images
 
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 10:15 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Best I'm finding so far is 12.8 volts is what the rotating lights are.


18 Gage wire also but I'll go heavier with in line fuses.


Qty. Description Part Number
1 Flasher 8554B010
2 Reflector Assembly 8552A269-01
2 Lamp, 12V, 35W, #796 8548A028
2 Screw, Hex Hd., Thd. 7011A067-06
Frm., #10-32
1 Adhesive Pad 8537A533
1 Wire, 18AWG, WHT/RED, 31" T300A218-22-0015
1 Wire, 18AWG, WHT/RED, 18" T300A218-22-0016
1 Wire, 18AWG, WHT/BLK T300A218-29-0012
1 Lockwasher, #10 7075A014

Last edited by PittsburghProud; 04-02-2008 at 10:19 PM.
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 10:34 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Maybe I can do something like this....
Attached Images
 
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2008, 12:10 AM   #7
Constant Bitrate
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 124
You should be able to daisy-chain the +12 supply lead across the switch terminals just like the ground lead.

One of the terminals on the switches has to be the "output" wire to the lights. I don't see that in any of your diagrams.

I'm assuming you don't have separate lights, but only illuminated switches, right?

Is the backlight supposed to be on all the time or only when the switch is in the on position? A lot of switches are wired so the internal light illuminates only in the on position. With only 3 terminals, the light would be connected internally to the terminal where you provide +12 into the switch (on all the time) or to the output terminal (on when switch and the light being controlled is on). The other side of the light (or LED) would connect to the ground terminal.

What kind have you got?

Last edited by Alanh; 04-03-2008 at 12:15 AM.
Alanh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2008, 02:14 AM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 43
The wiring would be the same regardless of the internal wiring of the switch. The third terminal is there to put the indicator light on it's own loop so it doesn't have to handle the same current as whatever the switch is controlling.

Pittsburgh: The pictures in your second post are fine. Connect the back light wires together and run them back to your power. The others should run to their respective lights. I'd also recommend against the 'rats nest coated in electrical tape' approach. Especially when using a metal enclosure.

Edit2: Removed crappy MSPaint diagram.
__________________
Planning: Never ends!
Parts: Strewn about the house...
Install: Someday soon...

Last edited by mjb_; 04-03-2008 at 02:38 AM.
mjb_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2008, 08:11 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Quote: Originally Posted by Alanh View Post
You should be able to daisy-chain the +12 supply lead across the switch terminals just like the ground lead.

Really? That's what I was wondering that if I did that and the first switch wasn't on would the others still have power to them? I thought the first would have to be on to supply the rest of the switches.

One of the terminals on the switches has to be the "output" wire to the lights. I don't see that in any of your diagrams.

Your so right that would be the middle set of tabs but I did it wrong in the diagram so the middle would be the out put to the light.
I'm assuming you don't have separate lights, but only illuminated switches, right?

Is the back light supposed to be on all the time or only when the switch is in the on position? A lot of switches are wired so the internal light illuminates only in the on position. With only 3 terminals, the light would be connected internally to the terminal where you provide +12 into the switch (on all the time) or to the output terminal (on when switch and the light being controlled is on). The other side of the light (or LED) would connect to the ground terminal.

I would like them to light only when the light is turned on. I am changing the switches out and radio shack sells the ones just like your talking about. 3 tabs on the back with build in back lighting.

What kind have you got?

I haven't bought any replacement switches just yet. I have the ones in the box (The silver box in the picture). Do you like one kind better than others? I can put anything in at this point.

Thanks so much for your help with this.
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2008, 08:18 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Quote: Originally Posted by mjb_ View Post
The wiring would be the same regardless of the internal wiring of the switch. The third terminal is there to put the indicator light on it's own loop so it doesn't have to handle the same current as whatever the switch is controlling.

Pittsburgh: The pictures in your second post are fine. Connect the back light wires together and run them back to your power. The others should run to their respective lights. I'd also recommend against the 'rats nest coated in electrical tape' approach. Especially when using a metal enclosure.

Edit2: Removed crappy MSPaint diagram.



Thank you, that's what I mean I have time right now to take my time and do a real nice "clean" job inside on my work bench. I want to solder each tab and slide black shrink wrap over the wire first so after I solder I can slid the shrink wrap down and seal over the tab and wire. Nice clean and safe. Any advise on weather I would need some sort of relay or can I wire the switches straight like in the diagram? At this point I can add or do anything I need too.


LOL" Removed crappy MSPaint diagram" Hey I did that in Photoshop but it was enough to show what I needed. I could have spent a little time on it and made it cool but way waste the time. It may look like a little kid did it but It worked....lol
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2008, 11:44 PM   #11
Constant Bitrate
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 124
Quote:
The wiring would be the same regardless of the internal wiring of the switch. The third terminal is there to put the indicator light on it's own loop so it doesn't have to handle the same current as whatever the switch is controlling.

Not sure what this is trying to say, but this is what I was saying....

Assuming a SPST (single pole, single throw) switch:

One terminal of each switch is +12V in and is connected to the source (battery, whatever). They can all be connected together. Its just like taking five switches, each with their own wire directly back to the power source except you replace 5 wires with one bigger wire. This doesn't go through any of the switches unless you wire it wrong. The wire from the source needs to be big enough to handle the current for all the lights that will be on at one time.

One terminal of each switch is the output wire and goes to the light or whatever is controlled by that switch. That wire needs to be big enough to handle the current of that light. One wire, one terminal in this case. The light inside the switch is connected so when the "out" terminal has power, the switch light goes on. (Be sure to connect it right or your switch light may be on all the time.)

For the typical lighted switch where the light goes on only when the switch is in the ON position, the third terminal is going to be connected to ground since the light needs +12v and ground to illuminate. This wire can connect across all of the switches just like the +12v wire and go to ground. It only needs to be big enough to handle the current of however many lights inside the switches will be on at one time (18ga wire will be plenty big). Note that you can get switches with more than 3 terminals where the inside light has its own +12 terminal in addition to the ground so you can wire it any way you want but you probably don't want those.

Quote:
I haven't bought any replacement switches just yet. I have the ones in the box (The silver box in the picture). Do you like one kind better than others? I can put anything in at this point.

There are a lot of switches to choose from, so it depends what look you want as much as anything.

Personally I like rocker switches because they don't have handles sticking out like the toggle switches which may or may not be an concern. (Toggle switch handles hurt if you bump your knee into them and I always wonder if I'll break the handle off through some accident.)

The rectangular rocker switches (look for Contura rocker switches) are popular because they fit a lot of factory cutouts, but that isn't an issue here from what I can tell. They come in a lot of different configurations with different switch caps, etc. (Look at the carlingtech.com site for an idea of the variety possible although you may have trouble buying them in small lots.) Take a look at waytekwire.com for some examples too. I've bought stuff from them so I know they're reputable, but they are far from the only source and have some minimum quantity requirements that can be a problem. Look at the accessory mounting panels which would simplify the switch cutouts. Boating supply places usually stock switches like that too from one mfg. or another. Some are more rectangular than others and price varies a lot so shop around and see them in person if you can because I've found pictures on the web can make a switch look better than it does in real life.

The typical switches I listed above are good for 15A or 20A each, so you need to figure out how much current each light uses to be sure you don't need more than that. There are FAQs around that will help you calculate current based on wattage. If you're within the switch current rating, its up to you whether you put in a relay. That depends on space and wire routing mainly. Relays are going to cost more and you'll need some place to mount them since you'll need one for every switch, but you use smaller diameter wire to control the relay so they're easier to route to your switch box. With room for the heavier wires, and as long as the wire length is reasonable, you can avoid the complication of the relays.
Alanh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 12:32 AM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 43
The type of indicator light, always on or toggled, has no bearing on how the switch is wired into his circuit, your post seemed to imply that the type would determine how he needed to do it. Thus my somewhat roundabout explanation of why it didn't matter.
__________________
Planning: Never ends!
Parts: Strewn about the house...
Install: Someday soon...

Last edited by mjb_; 04-04-2008 at 12:34 AM.
mjb_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 04:51 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Quote: Originally Posted by mjb_ View Post
The type of indicator light, always on or toggled, has no bearing on how the switch is wired into his circuit, your post seemed to imply that the type would determine how he needed to do it. Thus my somewhat roundabout explanation of why it didn't matter.


OK I think I got it now, I was confused for some reason (had a brain fart) I'm going to start this thing this weekend and will post what I have going on to make sure I have things correct. The goal is to do most of this long before I actually mount the bar on the roof. I want to get as much as I can done in the basement, I may just wire it up and put long lines on it and then it is done and when I mount it on the Van I'll loop and tie up the slack so it is nice and neat.
Many thanks for the help.

PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2008, 11:11 PM   #14
Constant Bitrate
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Yeah just connect all the grounds to one point, then all the +LED wires to one point (wires to turn on the LED).

Then just connect the remaining wire from each switch to the item you want to control.

Remember to ground all of your items to the chassis though. (obviously)
ArcaneDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 09:54 AM   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 40
Quote: Originally Posted by ArcaneDreams View Post
Yeah just connect all the grounds to one point, then all the +LED wires to one point (wires to turn on the LED).

Then just connect the remaining wire from each switch to the item you want to control.

Remember to ground all of your items to the chassis though. (obviously)


The light bar manufacturer specs tell me to actually run a wire to the battery and ground out there? Is the battery a fail safe place to ground out? Would there be an advantage to battery or chassis?
PittsburghProud is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carputer Wiring Question Maheriano Power Supplies 1 04-24-2007 03:54 AM
M2-ATX Wiring question ratboy Power Supplies 5 04-14-2007 07:11 PM
Inverter wiring question scp028 Power Supplies 2 11-06-2006 02:51 PM
inverter wiring question yonu Power Supplies 11 03-17-2005 11:02 PM
Wiring question pirate_king00 General Hardware Discussion 3 02-17-2005 03:01 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 1999 - 2008 Mp3Car.com Inc.Ad Management by RedTyger
Message Board Statistics