m4-atx help. Am I missing Wires? - Page 3

ArcaneDreams · 04-22-2008, 11:30 AM

Yeah I suppose I could run it off something else, however as one person has experienced...the power supply drained their battery. So I would rather get the power supply to work correctly. Especially since I paid a lot for it.

As for the 30 second shut down, I am referring to the time it takes for the power supply to send the shut down signal. Once the signal is sent it takes about 3 seconds to hibernate.

If your PC takes 30 seconds during the actual hibernate screen, then perhaps you should look into upgrading your PC, or stream-lining your OS.

crazy4ts · 04-22-2008, 08:23 PM

ecog

Thanks for the tips....I did try those steps as you suggested. I have been building PCs in one form or another for over 10 years and do have some experience. Not meant to be a wisea$$ just an FYI. I have ACPI enabled. As I am able to get it it to work when the power is hooked to the case switch and PSU is set to P0 as I stated above. But just to be sure I am not having an ID10T error i will go pull from the trunk now and recheck. BTW remember I had the PC configured for the M2 and only BIOS change I made was to set the PC power on from power failure so i didn't have to go in the trunk and start it. Going to hook my multimeter to the M4 and see if it indeed does pulse when 12v switched is sensed. Thanks for the feed back...will let you know.

hailrazer · 04-22-2008, 08:55 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ArcaneDreams

Yeah I suppose I could run it off something else, however as one person has experienced...the power supply drained their battery. So I would rather get the power supply to work correctly. Especially since I paid a lot for it.

As for the 30 second shut down, I am referring to the time it takes for the power supply to send the shut down signal. Once the signal is sent it takes about 3 seconds to hibernate.

If your PC takes 30 seconds during the actual hibernate screen, then perhaps you should look into upgrading your PC, or stream-lining your OS.

On all 4 of my Pc's, all of them Core2Duo. When you put them in hibernate the screen is turned off within 3 seconds. But if you watch the hard drive light , it takes over 30 seconds for the pc to actually shut everything down.

Now in my car when I turn off the car it takes about 30 secs for the pc to go into hibernate mode and turn off the screen.

I just assumed this was because I had the screen hardwired to the PC 12v power supply so it wasn't turning off the screen immediately. But I guess that wouldn't matter and it should turn off the screen after 5 secs.

And now that you mention it when I was installing my pc in the car the battery did go dead once, the M4-atx didn't shut down the PC at any time. had to jump it back off.

Maybe there is a defect?

crazy4ts · 04-22-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by hailrazer

Why should it take 5 seconds to shut down. ?

It acts just like pushing the power button on the PC which puts the PC in hibernate mode, which takes around 30 secs on every PC I have ever had.

It sends the signal to shut down the PC within 5 secs, the PC is the thing that takes 30 secs to shut down.

Maybe some confusion we are not talking about XP's time to hibernate once button or pulse is issued we mean 5 seconds delay from PSU to issue pulse and then XP responds taking proper action. Some people and I have seen this from my unit takes as much as 30 seconds for the pulse or button push to occur from the M4. Normally the PSU delays 5 seconds before issuing the power pulse as part of the manufacture spec I assume to allow you to cycle the cars ignition and give the engine time to start. Same occurs on 12v off, it delays 5 sec then pulses mother board just like you pushed the switch. Then if set to minibox recommendation P1 it will wait 30 and power of the 5 volt rail which is always running on the PC normally with an ATX PSU. Not an issue in your house but would be a battery killer for your car.

All my previous version of their product work like this. Ign ON 5 sec later pulse form PSU and PC returns from Hibernation or shutdown. Then IGN off 5 sec later PC begins Hibernates or shutdown depending on how Power Mngmt in XP is set. I have never used any devise other than the M2 or M1 ATX. The PSU is supposed to be intelligent and offer this protection on its own. If you are still showing a 5V output after 30 sec with IGN off and the PSU set as to P1 as per documentation then your PSU is not working right.

XP's time to hibernate depends on how much resources you are using when requested, ram and swap the more you have the longer to write to a file. Also how fast your drive is a slower IDE will take longer to hibernate versus a faster SATA.
D

ArcaneDreams · 04-23-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by crazy4ts

Maybe some confusion we are not talking about XP's time to hibernate once button or pulse is issued we mean 5 seconds delay from PSU to issue pulse and then XP responds taking proper action. Some people and I have seen this from my unit takes as much as 30 seconds for the pulse or button push to occur from the M4. Normally the PSU delays 5 seconds before issuing the power pulse as part of the manufacture spec I assume to allow you to cycle the cars ignition and give the engine time to start. Same occurs on 12v off, it delays 5 sec then pulses mother board just like you pushed the switch. Then if set to minibox recommendation P1 it will wait 30 and power of the 5 volt rail which is always running on the PC normally with an ATX PSU. Not an issue in your house but would be a battery killer for your car.

All my previous version of their product work like this. Ign ON 5 sec later pulse form PSU and PC returns from Hibernation or shutdown. Then IGN off 5 sec later PC begins Hibernates or shutdown depending on how Power Mngmt in XP is set. I have never used any devise other than the M2 or M1 ATX. The PSU is supposed to be intelligent and offer this protection on its own. If you are still showing a 5V output after 30 sec with IGN off and the PSU set as to P1 as per documentation then your PSU is not working right.

I just tried the instructions to reset the supply to factory default. Even that doesn't work as it is said to in the manual.

I jumpered JP6, and the LED is supposed to "flash rapidly" to show the defaults were reset.
When JP6 is jumpered...no flashing at all occurs.
XP's time to hibernate depends on how much resources you are using when requested, ram and swap the more you have the longer to write to a file. Also how fast your drive is a slower IDE will take longer to hibernate versus a faster SATA.
D

Yes exactly. It takes 30 seconds to for the power supply to pulse the "power switch" to start the hibernation process.

Sometimes, the power supply doesn't even act like it sees the remote wire when I try to turn it on as well..just sits there doing nothing. I have to disconnect/reconnect it several times to get it to start turning on.

Oh, and my PC takes about 5 seconds to run through it's entire hibernation process. I have a N-Lite Windows install so it is stripped of all the extra "junk" that normally makes Windows run slower.

You can even view the hibernation video of my PC in this very thread for an example of what I am talking about.

I am doubting this is a "defective" unit. It seems they all respond in this manner.

The customer support on this item is non-existing. It really ****es me off since I paid $130 after shipping.
MP3car store is showing this item out of stock..so either they are removing it because it sucks, or there are a lot of people who will be having problems when they get theirs in the mail.

I just tried Jumping pins JP1 to reset to factory default. The manual claims that the LED should flash rapidly to show it was reset.
When I jump JP1, there is no flashing at all.

hailrazer · 04-23-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ArcaneDreams

Yes exactly. It takes 30 seconds to for the power supply to pulse the "power switch" to start the hibernation process.

Sometimes, the power supply doesn't even act like it sees the remote wire when I try to turn it on as well..just sits there doing nothing. I have to disconnect/reconnect it several times to get it to start turning on.

I am doubting this is a "defective" unit. It seems they all respond in this manner.

I just tried Jumping pins JP1 to reset to factory default. The manual claims that the LED should flash rapidly to show it was reset.
When I jump JP1, there is no flashing at all.

No mine turns off every time after about 30 secs. It has never failed to turn off. And it has never failed to turn on .

And my reset works just as iy is supposed to.

ArcaneDreams · 04-23-2008, 11:02 AM

Yes, but how long does it take to send the off signal to your PC? If you have the dip switch set to different modes, it should send the signal at different times.

This is not the case.

crazy4ts · 04-23-2008, 11:53 AM

OK I am giving up on the M4-ATX! It should not take 30 seconds to do shutdown/startup pulse unless the DIP switch is configured for that, why would anyone want that. Lets consider, I pull up to a shop and shut my car off, with old M2 the PSU would initiated the pulse and send to XP into hibernation mode (as i have configured in Control Panel|Power Options|Properties|Advanced)after 5 sec not 30, the PSU will remain powered until the XP finishes it shut down you do not need to account that time as it will not shut off until completed hibernation unless you car battery drops below 11.5 volts.

Think about this energy is never created or destroyed but simply tranfered from one form to another. Your Car battery is simply a reservoir for stored energy. This energy was not created but transfered form the combustion of fuel, which transfers that heat (energy) as pressure which transfer to motion of the engine and some of that motion is transfered as electricity from car charging system. The battery life is not forever and you waste some of life with the lengthy shutdown times. You always want to be be as lean as possible when using stored energy - battery. So it takes 30 seconds for the shutdown pulse and then approximately 20 seconds for XP to hibernate and then the draw from the PSU on the 5V until PSU shuts that down it is approximately two minute of battery draw while you are ordering your lunch. If you start and stop your car 4 times a day then that is 1469 times a year which would translate to in excess of 12 hours of wasted battery draw yearly. Just food for thought. I like my PC to get pulse as quickly as possible 5 sec and then the time it takes for XP to hibernate..etc

Anyway enough blah blah blah

,

Here is an excerpt from my email just sent to MP3CAR Customer service:

....This PSU does not work as manufacturer's documentation states and your own forums seem to state this as well, as I can find no one who has it working other than as a standard non-intelligent PSU. I personally have spent over a week trying to get this thing to work as an intelligent PSU and have had no luck. I have been running a Carpc in my car for over two years now (with probably better than 99.9) percent uptime. I have in excess of 20 years experience building and maintaining Intel base (PC) computers. In fact I have made a good living as a Systems administrator for a major corporation for the past 20 years. This is not boastful rhetoric but intended to inform you I am not a 12 year old newbie. OK ,all that being typed, I have emailed mini-box TS and received no answer just like I have received no answer from you. I can only assume that this is an indication the product is not ready for 'prime time' based on the flimsy documentation and next to no support from mini-box. Please, I DO NOT want it replaced, but instead I would like to request a MP3CAR store credit and purchase a M2 ATX and other items instead.

Kicking around Mini-box forums I saw a thread about using two MX-ATX PSUs in parallel, so I spent until 5 :00 AM this morning doing fabrication (harness & mounts) and installation of my old M1ATX and M2ATX in my CarPC. I works perfectly! The M1 runs my two Sata drives, DVD burner and case fans. The M2 runs my system board and CPU. M2 sends startup/shutdown pulse (5sec) when 12v switched is cycled. Both shut down the 5V rail as configured via the individual PSUs JUMPER switches. Very pleased with this result so far. However I originally purchased the M4 because my M2 was starting to act flaky so I still want to replace it hence my request from RMA and Store Credit.

I am hoping that this email will get the proper response and you will make me a happy customer again. Thanks in advanced for your prompt attention to my concerns......

D

crazy4ts · 04-23-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by crazy4ts

I have emailed mini-box TS and received no answer just like I have received no answer from you. D

Correction I did receive response from ECOG via thread above did not realize that was MP3 TS...help. Big DUH and apology on my part.

ArcaneDreams · 04-23-2008, 10:15 PM

M4-ATX had a bug.

Read the e-mail I received from the manufacturer here:

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/powe...ml#post1205249

hailrazer · 04-23-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ArcaneDreams

M4-ATX had a bug.

Read the e-mail I received from the manufacturer here:

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/powe...ml#post1205249

Well I fired off an email to them to see if they will exchange mine also.

Thanks for the persistence.

jimmler · 04-24-2008, 09:56 AM

I looked at the "new" manual. I don't see a whole lot of improvement. Still no mention of any programming via the USB port. I'd be nice if this bug could be fixed via a firmware upload instead of having to deal with the hassles of shipping the unit back and forth. I guess we can dream.........
Glad you finally got a response. I suppose I should test mine further now to make sure it doesn't need to be returned, too.

insaneramman · 04-24-2008, 07:18 PM

I have just recieved my new M4 and out of the main connector there are 4 wires. Are these to power a video card. The colors are blk,yellow,org, and red. Haven't hooked it up yet to check the voltage on these lines. There is no mention in the manual about these. Does anyone know?

Fox_Mulder · 04-24-2008, 09:08 PM

Those 4 wires are extra wires which are for your atx connector on your mothrboard, if your motherboard has a 24pin atx connector. If it doesn't then just ignore them.

crazy4ts · 04-24-2008, 09:45 PM

It funny just before I logged in to the forum I just sent an email to Goce at Mp3Car:

Here is an exerpt:

...My feeling is that the doc is obviously missing key information and may even be wrong. Without that missing or corrected documentation we are doing something to make it go south or possibly they have a logic fault in their bios for the controller chip....

Good to know the my SA gut feelings still work and all this project management stuff I now do hasn't dulled them

It will be interesting to see if newer version is any better and eventually what they are doing the USB interface......

BTW I have not received any email from them (mini-box) as of yet.

Also my parrellel M2/M1 250 watt Combo still working fine after two days of road testing. Let me know if anybody is interested in details, pictures etc in that configuration, if so I will start a new thread....