BillyGalbreath

Ok, I wont go into too much details (yet) about my planning, but what it all comes down to is... I need a 500-600 watt power supply for the computer (pretty powerful little machine, yeah).

Now, obviously DC-DC is not an option for me, so I am forced to use an inverter. My question is, how much wattage should I get in an inverter to power [let's say] a 600w PSU? I'm looking at a 1000watt inverter, but is this overkill?

I'm a little slow when it comes to this stuff. I'm a software programmer, not a hardware technician...

*Note, only thing being powered by the inverter will be the PSU.*
*The monitor and everything else will be powered elsewhere.*
*Price is not an issue when it comes to this project.*

Thanks!

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dMand

please list the hardware you plan on using so that we can help you better, 600 watts of power can also be had using various DC to DC configurations.

DarquePervert

For an inverter, the rule of thumb is 1.5-2x the max wattage of your computer's PSU.

Honestly, there is no need for a PC in your ride that requires a 600w PSU.
Most of us (TheLandYacht being a noteable exception) get by with a system that consumes well under 200w.

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BillyGalbreath

I dont have a set list of hardware yet, as i've just started planning/research about a week ago. I can, however tell you what I expect out of my PC.

Firstly and most importantly, it must be fast. I've pretty much made up my mind on anything dual-core at 2.0gHz or higher with 1+mb cache and 800mHz fsb. AMD Athlon X2 looks really good to me (socket AM2).

The audio must be 8 channel, as that's how many speakers i have. Onboard or PCI is acceptable.

The video must be nVidia (ATI has poor support for Linux) and capable of running Compiz Fusion smoothly. This is vital for software/front-end plans I have for the future.

I require the use of 3 harddrives. 2x500gb sataII and 1x80gb sataII.

I will have all my accessories tied via USB hubs (3x4 port hubs for a total of 12 ports). Ports 1-8 will hold FM tuner, Bluetooth, GPS, Wifi b/g, Keyboard, Mouse, DVD/CD-RW, Lilliput Touch Screen. Ports 9-12 will be open ports to hook up external temporary devices (joysticks, stick drives, external hds, webcam, etc etc).

I will mainly be using this system as a MP3/Radio/CD replacement, but with GPS, Internet, Bluetooth capabilities. I spend a LOT of time in my car (with and without engine running) and while listening to my music I'd also like to be able to surf the web, or whatnot, with blazing fast speeds.

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BillyGalbreath

Sry for the double-post. I was posting from my phone and got a lil excited and pressed the wrong buttons lol!

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DarquePervert

Typically, 8-channel audio is a 7.1 surround setup with subwoofer.
This is probably going to be overkill for a vehicle, honestly. In a vehicle, you're not going to be able to hear the difference between 7.1, 5.1, 4.1 or anything else unless you're viewing/listening to something that is encoded for 5.1 or better surround. That usually means DVD movies.




I don't know what sort of video you require, but there are some quality motherboards with onboard nVidia graphics that would do you well, I think.
Using onboard video will save you some power, as well.


That's excessive, IMHO.
For power concerns, I would go with a single terabyte HDD instead of the pair of 500GB units.
That said, the multiple hard drive setup is doable, but can be made more efficient. Just ask TheLandYacht, who has 2.2TB in his taxi!


Go with powered USB hubs if at all possible.
Again, multiple USB hubs = more power draw. Consolidate the USB hubs and use less power.


For mobile internet, I'd look into a bradband card from one of the major cell providers (ATT, Sprint, TMobile). For $50/month or so, you can have reasonably fast 'net access as long as you've got a cell signal, for the most part.

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mrbean_phillip

Even with those specs listed, you will not need much more than 250W.

And, to top it off, use a Intel cpu with either mobile core 2 duo or desktop core 2 duo setup, they're at 45nm manufacturing process nowadays, and consume very low power levels.

So, you could most likely get away with a DSATX supply, and cut down to 1x 750gig to 1TB harddrive, you will be ok

Enjoy.

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Bugbyte

With a 600 watt system, you won't want to use that thing with the engine off for very long.

Seriously, a terabyte of storage?! You can build whatever you want, that's what this hobby is all about, but I'd advise that if this is your first car pc, start smaller and simpler, then work your way up to the mega-install later.

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BillyGalbreath

I am fully aware of this fact, but still - if you're gonna do something, might as well do it right. Plus the cool factor goes up a few extra points for having true 7.1 dolby in a vehicle. How many do you know with true 7.1? None, that I know of.


Yeah - I had that in mind when picking out a mobo. My original idea (first mockup) had a PCIe graphics card, but I thought about it and decided onboard would be best. The board in my current mockup (third) has an onboard nVidia GeForce 7050 which is plenty of power to handle DVD playback while using Compiz Fusion.


This I honestly did not think of. I'll have to look into these 1TB drives for their stability/reliability/specs. In my current mockup I have an extra 80gb drive to hold the OS and other documents - the reason its so big is it's the smallest drive I have laying around and I really dont want to go out and spend money on a smaller drive. I want to keep the OS on a completely different drive (not just partition) for piece of mind (if one drive fails, I wont lose everything, etc). However, from a power consumption point of view, I can start to see the benefits of using a single drive. This will require more thinking on my part before I make a decision.


Elaborate for me? I know that having more USB devices uses more power (each device has to draw its power, which bumps up usage), but what do you mean by consolidate? What are the benefits of powered USB hubs (powered from the mobo or from the battery, ultimately they're still drawing the same amount of energy, correct)?


My thoughts exactly. I have Verizon and I had planed on getting their wireless broadband subscription shortly after building the carpc. Either that, or using my Verizon Voyager cell phone (which has EVDO) to get on the internet (at roughly the same speed as a broadband card).


Not from what I calculated using those wattage calculators on the forums. I've calculated roughly 450 watt usage. So I decided a 500+watt PSU would be best. Please take a look at my attached mockup and tell me you still think it can be done with under 250 watts. If so, I'd gladly like to know how. Saving energy is a good thing!


I've looked at the specs on Intels and they just don't seem to be as good as AMDs are. For starters, the FSB & Cache are always smaller on Intels (which is probably why they run cooler and use less energy). Speed is something I'm not willing to negotiate in this project.


Yeah, the more I think about it (while typing this post) the more I like the idea of using 1 drive instead of 3.


Yeha, which is why I'll be using 2 deep cell batteries in my setup (Optima Yellow Top & Optima Red Top).


Yeah. I currently have a music library of about 25,000 (that's twenty-five thousand, NOT 2 thousand five hundred) and it grows everyday. Movies are pretty large in size too (anywhere from 650mb to 4.7gb per movie) and I do have a lot of those too.


Hehe! You must not know me very much. Let me tell you this... I didn't learn to swim in the 3' section of the pool. My cousin through me in the 15' deep end. Sink or swim. That's how I roll.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! This is really helping me out a lot! Got my mind wrapped around a few things I didn't think of - we're off to a good start! Yay!

* I have attached my current mockup (mockup 3). Take a look to get a better idea of where I'm going with this. Maybe ya'll will see something that needs to be mentioned. Expect this to change a lot (like adding a 3rd amp on those 4 speakers, for instance)

(everything in the big grey box, I already own)

Attached Images

 

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Bugbyte

Looks great, but very complex. With that many USB devices and hubs, I'll be surprised if it all works smoothly and consistently.

One thing - I presume it is an extra battery you are installing. If so, make sure you have a tank circuit or battery isolator installed.

Between nearly 3,000 watts of equipment and charging the extra battery, you may need an alternator upgrade. Not sure.

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BillyGalbreath

Why don't you think it would run smoothly and consistently? How else would I get all the functions I want? GPS, FM Radio, Bluetooth, Wifi, Keyboard, Mouse, Touch Screen (uses USB for "touch"), DVD/CD-RW, & other temporary removable things like joysticks, external hard drives, jump drives, web cam, etc etc...


Way ahead of you, my friend! http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/newb...batteries.html

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hailrazer

I have 8 Usb devices running together smoothly right now. Goes into and comes out of hibernation just fine. And I plan on adding a few more.

XM direct adapter
Hd radio adapter
Touchpad
Wireless Keyboard
Gps
Creative Live! External Soundcard
Powermate
Vga-to-Composite adapter

One thing you might note is that Verizon dropped their "Unlimited" mobile broadband and they have a cap now on usage.

But Sprint has "unlimited " for $59.99 a month and they share towers with Nextel so their actual coverage is now better than Verizons IMO.

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2k1Toaster

Just do as someone else suggested and use an Intel chip. In the high end market, there is absolutely no reason not to use Intel right now.

There is no more AMD vs. Intel fights right now because Intel wins hands down. Every benchmark known to man puts Intel ahead in speed and power consumption.

So if you arent willing to negotiate speed, then use an Intel core2 or quad. Overkill for the car though as everyone has said.

And the reliability of a 1Tb vs. 500Gb is negligable. Any vertical storage disk is less reliable than horizontal (less than 400Gb currently) but by less reliable I still mean you will die before the HD does in a car crash.

And 1 platter uses less power than 3.

And why the hell would you use an 80Gb too? You arent going to gain speed. If you honestly think you can squeeze a faster boot time out of a OS dedicated drive, you are crazy.

As for USB, with all that you will need a powered hub. Yes it draws the same amount of power (actually more because it has additional chips to power) but the mobo can only put out 500mA nomatter how you splice it. So 5 ports split off of 1 port self powered, all 5 combined cannot draw more than 500mA. Make it a powered hub and all 5 ports can get their full 500mA.

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galvitron

The core 2 duos are definitely faster than the AMDs at this point. I would look into the mobile c2d especially because of its low wattage. AMD is pretty far behind Intel in the current crop of processors, so if you are looking for speed, Intel is the way to go.

It is good to see that you are putting a lot of planning into this. That is necessary to have a successful install. Good luck.

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BillyGalbreath

I didn't think anything would be wrong with having so many USB devices. Thanks!



Lame! I'll have to dig deeper into that when the time comes - I frown upon bw caps! >




Are you serious? I don't see how - the numbers (to me) add up to AMD being the victor... I look at Intel chips and I see 400-800 mHz FSB and .5-1mb Cache. I look at AMDs and I see 800-1600 mHz FSB and 1-2mb Cache. I'm honestly at a loss of words here. I've been strictly an AMD guy for many many years now and honestly have been a little biased. I'll have to do more research on the procs.



Elaborate on that? Horizontal vs. vertical...



You are correct, but that was not my reasoning of separating the OS. If the OS crashes, then I can replace the OS drive without touching the data (that's a lot of data to try to recover) and vise versa. Partitioning is not enough, as I have seen drives fail and all partitions go with them. Not fun. Since I am putting these drives in a car that has rides very low to the ground and has stiff shocks and with all the heat factored in, I figured a hd failure is bound to happen...



This is the kind of info I love getting! I actually learned something from that! Thanks! Now I clearly see the benefit of using a powered USB hub with my many many devices.





Thanks! Being a programmer, I've learned planning is the most important part of any project no matter its size or complexity.

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