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10-05-2009, 11:43 AM
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#1
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Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Just North of Chicago
Posts: 9
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Are the M#-ATX PSUs supposed to be avoided like the plague?
I've yet to read anything good about the M# PSUs...The price is great, I mean really good...compared to the Opus/DSATX...I've got pretty much the rest of my system figured out...it's just that damned power supply...and cost.
Then again, I guess spending less money on a M#-atx psu and having it fry my Mobo, is worse than spending a little bit more just one time and getting something better...
Opinions?
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10-05-2009, 12:02 PM
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#2
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Maximum Bitrate
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, Ma or NY,NY
Posts: 564
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People complain about problems far more then they brag about things that work.
The older M# Generations did have problems (aka avoid what you find on ebay unless you can be sure its new) but i use an m4 and love it-no problems at all. Best part is I got the usb patch cable and can fine tune far more settings then then the more expensive opus.
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10-05-2009, 12:14 PM
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#3
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Confusion Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: If you go down to the woods today, You're sure of
Posts: 11,935
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From what I have heard the M1's and M2's were/are good little PSU's.
The Early M4's however were a bit iffy, but any that have been reflashed with firmware 1.3 or above are fine. Obviously the new ones ship with the new firmware. This I know from experience as I had an early one. It worked fine as a standard PSU, but the delay off timings didn't work, which is what I needed, I have since had someone flash it with the 1.3 firmware and all seems good.
BTW their support is a bit cr@p though, sent an email about my issues before I got it flashed, took a second email to get a response, and then it was only a "have you tried this?" which I had already stated I had in the original email. Since then my emails have gone unanswered.
I even pointed them to this thread so they could see how their PSU was perceived on the forum.
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10-05-2009, 12:36 PM
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#4
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Newbie
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 30
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My m2 has been running strong now for close to 4 years. The one issue that I had is if you are hibernating and let the car sit idle for a week you may come back to a dead battery. I am currently doing a full shutdown and reboot and have no battery draining.
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10-05-2009, 12:49 PM
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#5
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Maximum Bitrate
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, Ma or NY,NY
Posts: 564
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Quote: Originally Posted by CMOS1138  My m2 has been running strong now for close to 4 years. The one issue that I had is if you are hibernating and let the car sit idle for a week you may come back to a dead battery. I am currently doing a full shutdown and reboot and have no battery draining.
Then you weren't hibernating...you were most likely doing a hybrid suspend. Hibernation and shutdown are the same thing hardware wise-the only difference is the data stored on the disk.
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10-05-2009, 02:01 PM
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#6
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 200
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raven, i feel the same way about these PSU, i never tried one but i read alot about them, and i have to say the price on them isnt right ! in my opinion these DC-DC PSUs are very overpriced, the cost of making this device is no more then $10. think ab out this is an AC-DC costs less yet has more components and is more complex.....
besides that point, i read many posts where that M-itx works fine but dies after a year or 2.
personally i am and will avoid them.
ive been using dc-ac inverter in 3 installs NEVER had a problem.
__________________
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
2007 Toyota Tundra Double Cab SR5
>"Say what you mean and mean what you say"<
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10-05-2009, 02:18 PM
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#7
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Maximum Bitrate
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, Ma or NY,NY
Posts: 564
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Quote: Originally Posted by sergatiuk raven, i feel the same way about these PSU, i never tried one but i read alot about them, and i have to say the price on them isnt right ! in my opinion these DC-DC PSUs are very overpriced, the cost of making this device is no more then $10. think ab out this is an AC-DC costs less yet has more components and is more complex.....
That couldn't be any more incorrect...AC power supplies are far simpler and less expensive to make->the two don't even compare. $10? take a little trip over to digikey.com and i think you'll find its about five times that to make.
While yes the units are overpriced your paying for the extra demands a vehicle power supply needs to meet. Whether you go with opus or mini-box (m#-atx) is your call but DON'T use an ac inverter to power a carpc. Thats one thing 99% of the people on this forum will agree with.
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10-05-2009, 02:31 PM
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#8
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Confusion Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: If you go down to the woods today, You're sure of
Posts: 11,935
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Quote: Originally Posted by justchat_1 Then you weren't hibernating...you were most likely doing a hybrid suspend. Hibernation and shutdown are the same thing hardware wise-the only difference is the data stored on the disk.
Not necessarily. it could be that the PSU is set to power the 5v line even when the PC is shut off or in hibernation mode. This could drain the battery over time. I know for a fact the M4 usually has two options per timing settings, one id full power off the the other is the aforementioned powering of the 5v line.
Quote: Originally Posted by sergatiuk raven, i feel the same way about these PSU, i never tried one but i read alot about them, and i have to say the price on them isnt right ! in my opinion these DC-DC PSUs are very overpriced, the cost of making this device is no more then $10. .
$10, are you serious? do you know how difficult it is to get a PSU to power +12, +3.3 +5.0 -12v Stably from a flucturating power source which could be anything from 15v down to 9v?
Why is it we keep getting these people who think things can be built, marketed, supported with a profit in, for stupidly small amounts of money? 
Last edited by Enforcer; 10-05-2009 at 05:49 PM.
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10-05-2009, 02:34 PM
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#9
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FLAC
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: on the border of northern IL/IN
Posts: 926
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Quote: Originally Posted by sergatiuk raven, i feel the same way about these PSU, i never tried one but i read alot about them, and i have to say the price on them isnt right ! in my opinion these DC-DC PSUs are very overpriced, the cost of making this device is no more then $10. think ab out this is an AC-DC costs less yet has more components and is more complex.....
besides that point, i read many posts where that M-itx works fine but dies after a year or 2.
personally i am and will avoid them.
ive been using dc-ac inverter in 3 installs NEVER had a problem.
this is very similar to the small vga screen price thread---dc-dc power supplies are expensive because there is not enough demand to make them in large quantities, like there is with dc-ac inverters... smaller quantities, larger price, more hassle for the manufacturer...
Quote: Originally Posted by justchat_1 That couldn't be any more incorrect...AC power supplies are far simpler and less expensive to make->the two don't even compare. $10? take a little trip over to digikey.com and i think you'll find its about five times that to make.
While yes the units are overpriced your paying for the extra demands a vehicle power supply needs to meet. Whether you go with opus or mini-box (m#-atx) is your call but DON'T use an ac inverter to power a carpc. Thats one thing 99% of the people on this forum will agree with.
what he said-- there are to many extra steps to use a dc-ac---- you must first use a dc-ac adapter, that creates a very poor, stepped sine wave(unless you have a expensive true sine inverter, than it is a different story...), and then use a ac-dc power supply that might be good enough to take that poor ac signal, and turn it back into a dc signal... your just begging for noise problems with a setup like that...
it seems that most of the bugs in the m4 have been worked out, and it seems that most of the problems with some of the m series power supplies were user error, but it seems that there were problems with most of the power supplies right after they were released--and i think that it is poor of a manufacturer to offer a product before it was thoughly tested, like they seem to have done... but, i think that they have reached a point that i might be willing to try them again if they suit my build requirements.
Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer $10, are you serious? do you know how difficult it is to get a PSU to power +12, +3.3 +5.0 -12v Stably from a flucturating power source which could be anything from 15v down to 9v?
Why is it we keep getting these people who think things can be built, marketed, supported with a profit in, for supidly samll amounts of money?
thats ok, when he comes out with his own version of a 220 watt dsatx for $25-$30, i'll take 2...
Last edited by soundman98; 10-05-2009 at 02:41 PM.
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10-05-2009, 02:54 PM
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#10
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Maximum Bitrate
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, Ma or NY,NY
Posts: 564
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Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer Not necessarily. it could be that the PSU is set to power the 5v line even when the PC is shut off or in hibernation mode. This could drain the battery over time. I know for a fact the M4 usually has two options per timing settings, one id full power off the the other is the aforementioned powering of the 5v line.
Well yes and no....if the power supply thought it was in an S3 power state it could leave the 5v rail on until the failsafe timer fired, or low battery was detected. But hibernate (S4) has no current draw other then the 5v standby which is on even in S5. So basically even if the power is supplied, since nothing is using it there should be no draw.
Although I do have to say -> the stock m4 low battery voltage is 11.2V which for most cars is too low. First thing i did was up that to 11.8.
Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer Why is it we keep getting these people who think things can be built, marketed, supported with a profit in, for supidly samll amounts of money?
I blame China...
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10-05-2009, 03:42 PM
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#11
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Newbie
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 30
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Quote: Originally Posted by justchat_1 Then you weren't hibernating...you were most likely doing a hybrid suspend. Hibernation and shutdown are the same thing hardware wise-the only difference is the data stored on the disk.
Other users on this forum have had the same problem using hibernation on the m-2, I am positive that I was not using suspend as that would have drained the battery much faster and my resume speed would have also been faster but I cannot now tell you what jumper settings I was using since I have been doing a full reboot for the past year.
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10-05-2009, 04:06 PM
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#12
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Variable Bitrate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 372
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if you ask yourself the question...do not buy it.....
__________________
Carputer:
Psu: DCX6.360-H
Mobo: Intel D945GCLF2
Ssd: ssd ocz solid state 30gb
ram : 1024 meg kingston 667 mhz
Sound card : asus xonar d2 pci
Fan : one nexus and one noctua
case : i'm building a new one
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10-05-2009, 04:42 PM
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#13
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Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 48
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I bought an M4 a couple months ago and have had absolutely no problems with it. From what I understand the first few batches of M4's sold had firmware issues that have since been fixed.
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10-05-2009, 05:24 PM
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#14
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 200
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well... i expected that most of you guys are not going to like my post.
and yes the inverter route is "longer", less efficient, noise issue is the simplest thing to eliminate with an inverter, and it WORKS ! ALWAYS !
i agree that these PSUs have more functions, bbut they are still overpriced, yes the same way as LCD, and yes it is because of the demand on them.
still most of our projects are a bit pricey to start with, but that doesnt mean we will pay ANY price for these devices, some of you might.
and regarding china, its an excelent point, i have a list of manufacturers in china and taiwan, im going to email them the requirments and see what kind of pricing they can quote me...
and guys, stop flaming me, i clearly said "personal opinion"...(;
__________________
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
2007 Toyota Tundra Double Cab SR5
>"Say what you mean and mean what you say"<
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10-05-2009, 05:39 PM
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#15
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Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 48
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Quote: Originally Posted by sergatiuk well... i expected that most of you guys are not going to like my post.
and yes the inverter route is "longer", less efficient, noise issue is the simplest thing to eliminate with an inverter, and it WORKS ! ALWAYS !
i agree that these PSUs have more functions, bbut they are still overpriced, yes the same way as LCD, and yes it is because of the demand on them.
still most of our projects are a bit pricey to start with, but that doesnt mean we will pay ANY price for these devices, some of you might.
and regarding china, its an excelent point, i have a list of manufacturers in china and taiwan, im going to email them the requirments and see what kind of pricing they can quote me...
and guys, stop flaming me, i clearly said "personal opinion"...(;
The reason I use the DC-DC power supplies is because I want my computer to turn on/off automatically. Prices for goods in a niche market like this will always be high because the demand is too low for the companies to make a decent profit without raising the prices. Since the amount of units sold by the company is low they do not have the financial resources to buy huge amounts of parts in bulk so they do not get nearly as good discounts on components as other big name companies do. You also have to consider the time and effort of the people who build these items, most of them are made by small groups of people that make these items because they enjoy the hobby. When these people are making prototype boards they get charged a ton of money since they aren't making orders in bulk.
You will definitely find that most Chinese made components are cheaper but that is because they are of inferior quality compared to the rest of the world. Cheap components bought from china will have a higher chance of failure and lower reliability due to the quality. Check out a site like mouser.com and you will see that the individual component costs really start to add up.
This is true for any hobby, I also made a arcade machine that ran MAME and required some circuit boards to interface the arcade buttons to the computer. This board cost me $40 and it is just a keyboard encoder. These hobbies aren't cheap
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