Ghetto Startup/Shutdown Control for Inverter - Page 7

Acree · 12-04-2005, 09:42 PM

so has anyone actually finalized a circuit yet?
here's exactly what i need it to do.

1)When 12v is supplied, the inverter turns on and the computer boots up
2)when 12v is cut, the computer receives a signal to shutdown (not hibernate)
3)when 12v is cut, the inverter and computer stay powered for a given time (90sec)
4)after 90 seconds, the inverter and computer are both COMPLETELY shut off, where i can leave my car sitting for a week and not have to worry about the battery draining.

anyone? i have a very wide knowledge of electronics but this is the first time i have looked at something like this.

the_realscott · 12-05-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Acree

so has anyone actually finalized a circuit yet?
here's exactly what i need it to do.

<snip>

anyone? i have a very wide knowledge of electronics but this is the first time i have looked at something like this.

Yeah, that's what I need too. I made a circuit diagram from things that others suggested, and made a few changes based on some advice, but when I built the circuit it didnt work. I dont have the electronics knowledge to trouble shoot it... if you know what you're doing with electronics, maybe you could have a go at it, and see if you can get it to work. Otherwise, tell me what you think should be done, and I'll have a go at it (:

Basically, the first relay works, i.e. the 12V will switch on the inverter, and switch it off when the 12V is cut, but but the delay timer part (with the second relay, resistor & caps, and the transistor) doesnt work.

This was the circuit I drew, except that it was modified like this:
- All LEDs were omitted,
- The 470K ohm resistor was replaced with a 470ohm,
- The 9.2k ohm resistor was replaced with a 1kohm,
- All diodes were replaced with 1N4001.

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...0&postcount=51

Cheers,

Scott.

Acree · 12-05-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by the_realscott

Yeah, that's what I need too. I made a circuit diagram from things that others suggested, and made a few changes based on some advice, but when I built the circuit it didnt work. I dont have the electronics knowledge to trouble shoot it... if you know what you're doing with electronics, maybe you could have a go at it, and see if you can get it to work. Otherwise, tell me what you think should be done, and I'll have a go at it (:

Basically, the first relay works, i.e. the 12V will switch on the inverter, and switch it off when the 12V is cut, but but the delay timer part (with the second relay, resistor & caps, and the transistor) doesnt work.

This was the circuit I drew, except that it was modified like this:
- All LEDs were omitted,
- The 470K ohm resistor was replaced with a 470ohm,
- The 9.2k ohm resistor was replaced with a 1kohm,
- All diodes were replaced with 1N4001.

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...0&postcount=51

Cheers,

Scott.

ok, so far that makes sense. can you tell me what exactly a TIP3055 is, and where i can get the diodes and the tip3055? i'm going to have my roommate to a look over this circuit. he is an EE graduate so he should be able to solve any problems you're having with it.

Acree

EDIT::
any chance you could number all of the relay pins and also tell me which relays you are using?

Curiosity · 12-05-2005, 11:21 PM

It's not turning the relay on at all? You should check the voltage at the base and emitter of TIP3055. The voltage at the emitter is probably low. Have you tried disconnecting the base and just applying 12V to it to arm the relay? That would tell you if the transistor is going to do the job, because it really looks right, like the resistor/caps would hold for quite a while. I just think it's that TIP3055. I always use generic 2N ones.

the_realscott · 12-06-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Curiosity

It's not turning the relay on at all? You should check the voltage at the base and emitter of TIP3055. The voltage at the emitter is probably low. Have you tried disconnecting the base and just applying 12V to it to arm the relay? That would tell you if the transistor is going to do the job, because it really looks right, like the resistor/caps would hold for quite a while. I just think it's that TIP3055. I always use generic 2N ones.

I havent tried anything, because I have no idea what you would normally do to test this stuff (:

The TIP3055 is a 60V/15A/90W type. Are the 2N ones ok to use for this circuit? What would you recommend?

Curiosity · 12-06-2005, 12:45 AM

Just set your DMM to 20V DC. black to ground, and hold red to any point. You should get around 12V at most spots. If you're getting like 2V on the base, that's bad.

It should ramp up quick when you apply power and drop very slowly after power is removed.

the_realscott · 12-06-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Acree

ok, so far that makes sense. can you tell me what exactly a TIP3055 is, and where i can get the diodes and the tip3055?

The TIP3055 is an NPN power transistor that you should be able to find pretty easily. Here's the spec sheet:

http://www.futurlec.com/Transistors/TIP3055.shtml

Quote: Originally Posted by Acree

any chance you could number all of the relay pins and also tell me which relays you are using?

The relays are generic 12V 30A bosch type SPDT automotive relays. THe type that are used for the horn etc. Here's the pin descriptions:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=330-070
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp

Here's a revised diagram:

Curiosity · 12-06-2005, 02:30 AM

Ah, look at pulsed to steady here:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp

The way they do it, the 10K resistor is parallel with the cap to ground, and the source current goes direct to the relay (or transistor in this case). That would be a shorter duration than you want, but try it. If that works, then 1k is way too much.

casurfer911 · 12-06-2005, 04:14 AM

I built the unrevised setup and it works for me and is in my car right now. For the 9.2k ohm resistor i used two 4.7K's in series, everything else is exactly the same. Realise when you are testing it that it has a 20 second or so delay in the start for when you are cranking the engine. Make sure you have the caps facing the right direction and definately use the led's, they cost like a buck and make it so easy to tell what is happening. I actually just bought a breadboard and bolted a plastic cover over it because i couldn't solder that stupid transistor onto a pc board, i kept connecting the contacts.

johnnybbad · 12-07-2005, 01:05 AM

the schematic or darwing that i did works i have i running on my 92 astrovan
turn the ignition on and it starts up no problems using the monemtary on relay . I can run the computer as long as i drive no problems.
i am running windows xp sp2 media engine and i havent had my computer hang once (actually i havent had my house computer hang in a year and a half so i am not worreid about that ) and if i was parking the car for a wial i would just make shure it shut off using the momenatry power switch that i connected along side the momentary relay to make sure that it was off BUT I HAVE NO PROBLEMS .
when i park the van i turn off the ignition and the computer proceeds to turn off poping up a message that the car is running off of battery (ups) starts the shutdown prossess but the software has a button to cancel the shutdown prossess
so if i want to sit andlisten to music for longer than the 1 1/2 minutes i have it set to then i hit cancel and listen for as long as i leave it on if i turn the ignition the software resets it self and i can drive somewere and again when i stop it will staur the shudown prossess again so it counts down 1 1/2 minutes then cuts its own power off after it has finished logging out and just about a second after that it shuts down

i have also set up the computer power settings in the control panel to go to hibernation after twohours of no activity works fine i find i press a key or move the x10 remote once at least before two hours so doesnt shutdown wial im driving but if you want to setup playlists and go on a long trip or drive a lot set it for longer

I CANNOT FIGURE OUT WHY THERE ARE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH CARPUTERS HANGING I COULD UNDERSTAND IT IF IT WAS A COMPUTER USED FOR DOWNLOADING OR SOMTHING LIKE THAT BUT THESE INSTALLS ARE CLEAN I MEEN OPERATING SYSTEM FRONTEND MISC SOFTWARE PICTURES AND WHAT HAVE YOU RIGHT ? I DONT THINK I WILL HAVE A PROBLEM BUT LIKE I SAID BEFORE HAVE A SWITCH WATCH IT SHUTDOWN BEFORE YOU PARK OVERNIGHT I MEEN A CAR BATTERY SHOULD BE ABLE TO LAST QUITE A FEW HOURS OR LONGER but i am tottaLY willing to help anyone as much as i can .

and i tried the schematic above and i couldnt get that **** to work ......?

johnnybbad · 12-07-2005, 01:14 AM

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Quote: Originally Posted by Acree

so has anyone actually finalized a circuit yet?
here's exactly what i need it to do.

1)When 12v is supplied, the inverter turns on and the computer boots up
2)when 12v is cut, the computer receives a signal to shutdown (not hibernate)
3)when 12v is cut, the inverter and computer stay powered for a given time (90sec)
4)after 90 seconds, the inverter and computer are both COMPLETELY shut off, where i can leave my car sitting for a week and not have to worry about the battery draining.

anyone? i have a very wide knowledge of electronics but this is the first time i have looked at something like this.

Well if you leave your headlights on for a week your battery goes dead too

thats why if you know you arent going to be around your vehicle for a wial have a wired momentary button inline with the relAY so you can insure that its off i meen mine shuts off fine by itself but if i am going to leave to go to bed for the night i will wait the extra five seconds for the compter shutdown completely if not i will push the button under the dash AND THE SCHEMATIC I BUILT DOES ALL OF THAT BUT I CAN SET THE TIME ON THE COMPUTER IF I WANT FOR IT TO SHUT DOWN LONGER OR SHORTER TIMES

Acree · 12-07-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by johnnybbad

\

Well if you leave your headlights on for a week your battery goes dead too

thats why if you know you arent going to be around your vehicle for a wial have a wired momentary button inline with the relAY so you can insure that its off i meen mine shuts off fine by itself but if i am going to leave to go to bed for the night i will wait the extra five seconds for the compter shutdown completely if not i will push the button under the dash AND THE SCHEMATIC I BUILT DOES ALL OF THAT BUT I CAN SET THE TIME ON THE COMPUTER IF I WANT FOR IT TO SHUT DOWN LONGER OR SHORTER TIMES

i want this circuit to completely cut off my inverter after 90 seconds, no matter what. i don't want a button power shut off. i don't want to have to think about it everytime i turn off the car, or sit in the car and wait for the computer to fully shut down.

casurfer - so how exactly does it work. can you give me a step by step detail of start up and shut down and approximate times between each event?

johnnybbad · 12-07-2005, 09:21 PM

well mine works fine and i dont have to sit and wait or press a button but if you find out a better one let me know and i will try that too i didnt say you had to use it just that it works .. i tottaly understand where you are comming from you dont want to have to press anything at any time and neither do i (the button is just a emergency thing i dont have to use it ) i havent had a problem yet and i dont see one its been about a week of constant use and it shuts down bye itself when i turn the ignition off
\ if i have any problems i will post them here but i am working on the sub box now i just picked up 4 10inch audiobahn

the_realscott · 12-07-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by johnnybbad

well mine works fine but if you find out a better one let me know and i will try that too i didnt say you had to use it just that it works ..

Yeah your system sounds fine mate... the only reason I dont want to use it is because if it hangs - yeah, maybe it's only once in a year or whatever - then the battery will be flat afterwards... the way I'm trying to build, it will shut it off automatically. It's just another fail-safe.

PS: What you said about the headlights... My car also has auto headlights, so they turn themselves off automatically too (:

johnnybbad · 12-07-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by the_realscott

Yeah your system sounds fine mate... the only reason I dont want to use it is because if it hangs - yeah, maybe it's only once in a year or whatever - then the battery will be flat afterwards... the way I'm trying to build, it will shut it off automatically. It's just another fail-safe.

PS: What you said about the headlights... My car also has auto headlights, so they turn themselves off automatically too (:

i would just use the inerior lights as the delay if there is enough time i would work fine if they are automaticly turned on when your car is running and when you turn the ingition off there is a delay