Ghetto Startup/Shutdown Control for Inverter

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 12:01 AM

Updated:

Quote:

http://www.vcbb10.info/ShutdownController

that's the most recent with pics of my shuttle wired up. I didn't use a cap, so no delay, but it shuts the inverter off after the computer shuts down (leaves on if computer hangs, but that shouldn't happen...much

)

Also uses this for com port trigger: http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...own+controller

more in-depth info: http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...&page=3&pp=10&

Let me start off by stating that I am a self-admitted electronics n00b. In my feeble little mind, this concept works, but I'm almost certain that it has fundamental flaws.

How it "works" (or does in my mind):

Startup- Power is fed from the battery to a relay, to the inverter, and than to the computer. When the ignition is turned on, the relay opens the switch from the battery to the inverter, and the computer is set to power on after powerloss and turns on.

Shutdown- The computer is set up with a "generic" UPS that shuts down when power is not supplied to Serial Pin 8 of the computer.

The ignition switch is connected to pin 8 (Voltage, amperage is lowered to 5v and w/e amps {idk, im dumb, remember?}). When the ignition is switched off, it prompts the computer to shutdown automatically.

There should be an approximatly 1 minute delay before the ignition power to the relay is shutdown, and thus shuts down the power to the inverter and the rest of the system (idk how to do this either, or if it is possible).

Knowlage that has led to this idea:

Quote:

A relay is just an electrical switch i.e. instead of you flicking the switch with your finger, a 12v supply flicks it. So when you turn your car on, the accessory wire gets 12v, this flicks the switch (relay) on, the connection is made, 5v from the psu connects to pin8. When you turn your car off the reverse happens.

^I don't completely understand because of the 5v from ps to pin 8. That wouldn't shutdown the computer, because it is the computers p/s. Seems right for the startup part though.

Idea for fake UPS from:

http://www.cynian.net/index?name=car...iddle=carputer

also more info:

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...light=fake+ups

Thanks Laidback

Also if this is possible what kind of relay and other parts would i need (meaning 1 min delay thing, and deal to lower voltage, please link, and give specifics)

dodgetimes2 · 05-28-2004, 12:11 AM

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...own+controller

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 12:48 AM

ok, that would control shutdown easier, but still startup has the delay turn off of inverter problems.

Quote:

Take a relay that is triggered by the 12V of your power supply and by the ACC line from your car, you have to put a diode in between, and feed the Inverter/PSU thru it. And set the motherboard BIOS to startup after powerloss.

i don't understand that much.

Laidback · 05-28-2004, 01:32 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by vcbb5

^I don't completely understand because of the 5v from ps to pin 8. That wouldn't shutdown the computer, because it is the computers p/s. Seems right for the startup part though.

The UPS service checks for a high signal on pin 8 (>3v) all the time it's running, if it's not there it shuts the computer down, doesn't matter where the signal comes from. (It can be setup to check for a low signal instead) I only took the 5v from my PSU because I didn't want an unregulated 12v plus connected to my sys board. (even though I know serial ports can take something like 25v)

The fake UPS is nothing to do with startup, the service doesn't even start running until Windows is up!

Laidback · 05-28-2004, 01:52 AM

How I think it should be...

Ricky327 · 05-28-2004, 06:56 AM

You can use a resistor and a zener diode to limit the ACC voltage before feeding it to pin 8 of comport to be on the safe side.

It is possible to start up the PC from comport, some say it only work when PC on standby. I couldnt get my PC to wakeup from off, I dont think my motherboard support WOM and havent bothered since. If you search "WOM or wake on modem" there should be a mention of RI or ring indicator on a comport. In theory you just apply a signal to this pin and your PC should wake up from off.

As I said I havent got it to work, but I assume you can also apply +12V to RI. Check if your BIOS also have setting about wake on modem.

You may want to insert a timer that control the relay so if the PC refuse to shutdown then the timer turns the relay off...therefore forcing the PC to turn off.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

PaPP · 05-28-2004, 07:11 AM

Just a quick side note about this. Can the computer shut all the way down, or should you set it to hibernate? What would be the benefits of hibernating as opposed to powering all the way down? Thanx!

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 08:11 AM

That's how I think it should look. Using the relay on the ignition to short the com pin 8 and com pin 4 together for shutdown using the nice little program discussed in this thread. The capacitor than loses juice over 30 seconds - a minute or so (enough time for shutdown) before turning off the main power relay for the inverter (hard power down for soft failure and to switch inverter off to save battery).

Laidback- I still don't understand how 5v from the psu would shut the computer off when you switch off the ignition. You would have to go from an acc line or ignition line to tell the computer to shutdown (assuming your using the fake UPS idea, which i substituted with the com 4, com 8 short idea in my latest plan).

Also, would it be better to just attach the first relay to the actual switch of the inverter, instead of inline with the power cord? For example opening the inverter to get to the two leads that are connected when the inverter is on to use for switching.

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 08:22 AM

hybernating saves all the current stuff in your ram to the hard drive and lets you "resume" windows from where you left off. Hybernating is faster starting up windows too.

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 08:24 AM

Ricky327- Could you give some more info on WOM (is it the same as wake on ring?). For example what pin to connect, what voltage to run, etc.

Laidback · 05-28-2004, 10:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by vcbb5

Laidback- I still don't understand how 5v from the psu would shut the computer off when you switch off the ignition. You would have to go from an acc line or ignition line to tell the computer to shutdown (assuming your using the fake UPS idea, which i substituted with the com 4, com 8 short idea in my latest plan).

I'm not sure how I can explain it any simpler!

UPS service needs 5v on pin 8
Take 5v away from pin 8 and computer shuts down. Simple!

Once again, it doesn't matter where the 5v comes from, PSU, a battery on the passenger seat or a wind generator on the roof!!
Maybe you forgot, I use a relay controlled by the IGN wire.
IGN on = 5v to pin 8 = computer stays on
IGN off = 0v to pin 8 = computer shuts down

Laidback · 05-28-2004, 10:37 AM

Doh! OK, I just realised what you may be missing!!!

In WinXP you need to configure a 'generic UPS' - Control Panel > Power Options.

This is a service that runs in the background and you configure it to have 'positive signal polarity' This means it looks for 5v on pin 8. When 5v isn't there the service closes windows down. This is how UPS's usually work.

That might explain things better hopefully...

If you don't have WinXP, you will need the little program, you linked to above, which works in the same fashion.

P.S. (and I hope not to add to the confusion here)
You could also configure it to 'negative signal polarity', Then it would look for 0v on pin 8 and if it got 5v on the pin *then* it would shut down. (Maybe this way could be used with an alarm system, I don't know)

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 10:43 AM

ah, didn't know about the relay

vcbb5 · 05-28-2004, 10:45 AM

It also works in windows 2k. I turned it on, on one of my home comps, and pretty soon it restarted just after starting the comp up

. I than booted to safe mode and turned it off though.

I think that using the cross pin 8 and 4 would be easier than running power to the line, and probably safer.

weekendowel · 05-28-2004, 11:41 AM

You can configure my program to wait with the shutdown for an amount of time after you have shorted pin 4 - 8.
Let´s say you set the time to 10 min and you turn off your car, then the pc would stay on, and then you turn your car on after 5 min then the pc will continue to stay on.

I have some new things that I will throw in to it.