Help With Fuses - Page 2

Specimen · 05-15-2006, 01:21 PM

My ground suggestion was something that won't fix this problem, but might fix other problems you might encounter later. Just remember the amperage that you draw from the battery needs to go back to the battery through ground. Using a smaller wire than your (+) wire means that your devices could draw more amps than it can sink to ground. That would be like using huge pipes to bring in water to your house and using very small pipes for your sewerage line. You’re not going to get rid of the used water as fast as you’re bringing in fresh water. And that could get messy.

What are all the USB and the PCI devices you are using?

silv3rman · 05-15-2006, 08:38 PM

Thanks guys. Im going to read over what you guys said and try to figure this out.

For now..The devices are as follows:
BU-303
5 Port USB Hub (2 3ft USB extension cables then the hub under my seat)
Linksys Wireless B/G Adapter
Xenarc TouchScreen USB

Because there is only 2 USB ports on the motherboard, im using a 4 port USB PCI card. My case has the little thing that makes the PCI card flip horizontally.

silv3rman · 05-16-2006, 05:07 PM

Alright... I tried without the PCI card and any USB devices, aside from the Xenarc USB. So the only thing connected was the Xenarc USB and VGA. A fuse blew. Then I tried with just the VGA cable, it blew. So it must be either my slim dvd-drive (5V) 3.5 hdd (12V & 5V) or my Xenarc Power (12V) causing it to blow. Im trying to figure out the amps each of them require.

silv3rman · 05-18-2006, 03:14 PM

After loosing 3 more fuses I came to the realization that the fuse would blow even before the initial power on. This was how I would set up the circuit. Everything would be hooked up to the computer (the power, ground and rem). Then in my fuse distro which is in my trunk, right next to my computer, I would slide in my 20A fuse. Every time, whenever I put in the 20A fuse it sparked, which I figured was slightly normal, a little weird since the car wasnt on and the PC wasnt on, but normal. Then the 15A in the M2 would blow. Remember the car was off the entire time. Did I do something wrong? Is it a problem with my ground? My amp works fine (it runs off the same positive from the battery, connects to the distro block) so Im guessing its not the power wire, but I dont know. I would say its definetly not the REM wire (right?). So maybe its a problem with the ground. Its grounded where all the other things are grounded (2 amps). Maybe the wire is too long, but even so would that make sense? What is trying to pull power when the PC is off? I dont get it.

Wiredwrx · 05-18-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by silv3rman

After loosing 3 more fuses I came to the realization that the fuse would blow even before the initial power on. This was how I would set up the circuit. Everything would be hooked up to the computer (the power, ground and rem). Then in my fuse distro which is in my trunk, right next to my computer, I would slide in my 20A fuse. Every time, whenever I put in the 20A fuse it sparked, which I figured was slightly normal, a little weird since the car wasnt on and the PC wasnt on, but normal. Then the 15A in the M2 would blow. Remember the car was off the entire time. Did I do something wrong? Is it a problem with my ground? My amp works fine (it runs off the same positive from the battery, connects to the distro block) so Im guessing its not the power wire, but I dont know. I would say its definetly not the REM wire (right?). So maybe its a problem with the ground. Its grounded where all the other things are grounded (2 amps). Maybe the wire is too long, but even so would that make sense? What is trying to pull power when the PC is off? I dont get it.

Please describe the wiring and which fuses are popping? Perhaps a basic paint drawing would help.

From what I got so far, you have a large cable from the battery to the trunk distro block. You have a 20 amp fuse there. Then, from the distro, you have some wiring to the M2 and your amp. The fuse on the M2 is blowing, even before it is on, while the amp continues to work with out a problem. Is the 20 amp fuse in the distro popping?

Sound like there is an issue with the M2 wiring. I doubt it is a ground issue. Remember what I said earlier, fuses pop when you EXCEED the current rating, either because the fuse is too low a value for the item being powerd (not likely since you haven't even turned the PS on) or because THERE IS A SHORT. You need to check to make sure you have the M2 connected properly. I know that the M2 has solder point on the bottom of the board. MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT TOUCHING METAL OR SOMETHING CONDUCTIVE. What do you have under the M2? Try and slip a piece of paper between the M2 board and what ever is under it. Does the paper fit between? Check to see if something might be making contact with the M2 that shouldn't be. Also, the M2 doesn't have a molex, but just connectors that accept the female quick disconnects with wire attached. ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU HAVE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE going to the appropriate connectors??? Quadruple check.

Disconnect the M2 from the mother board, and see if it blows the fuse when you insert the 20 amp fuse. If not, then it has to do with the MB. Is the MB youching metal? Try and slip the paper inbetweent he MB and what is under it. Look for anything making contact with the MB that shouldn't be making contact.

If you find nothing wrong, DISCONNECT the wires from the disto to the M2 at the M2 end, insert the 20 amp fuse, and see what happens. There HAS to be a problem in that "leg" of the wiring. Something is wrong between the Distro Block and the M2, or, something is shorted in the M2.

Good luck, and report back.

Michael

silv3rman · 05-18-2006, 03:55 PM

Thanks Wiredwrx. Im going to buy some fuses later and try what you said. The M2 is inside of a cause that I bought so it fits perfectly. Nevertheless ill be sure to check the motherboard and the psu to see if its touching metal.

The red fuse is the one that keeps blowing:

Specimen · 05-18-2006, 06:41 PM

Even though the M2-ATX is in the case, it still could be touching something metal on the case. The metal case usually acts like a ground, so you want to make sure the motherboard and the M2 are not touching the case like what Wired said. Do you have a digital camera? If you do, take some pictures of your case, M2, Motherboard and your wiring. Maybe we might be able to spot something that your missing.

You said it still blows without even turning on the computer? Does the fuse still blow when you disconect the Motherboard from the M2 entirely?

Wiredwrx · 05-18-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by silv3rman

Alright... I tried without the PCI card and any USB devices, aside from the Xenarc USB. So the only thing connected was the Xenarc USB and VGA. A fuse blew. Then I tried with just the VGA cable, it blew. So it must be either my slim dvd-drive (5V) 3.5 hdd (12V & 5V) or my Xenarc Power (12V) causing it to blow. Im trying to figure out the amps each of them require.

WHere is your Zenarc power taken from.

Also, did you follow my suggestions in the thread.

"I would disconnect the AMP, M2, and any other devices from the power wires. Then I would disconnect the wire from the battery hot side. Then, ehck for continuity between the positive wire and ground.

Fuses blow for 1 reason, because the amperage is exceeded. The ways for that to happen is drawing too many amps (that should not be the case) and a short of the positive to ground.

If there is no continuity, then I would check to see that all the circuit boards are not accidentally touching ground. Check the M2. How is it mounted, and to what. Is a solder point touching metal such as a metal case or metal screw that is grounded.

Check the wires, especially where it enters the car through the fire wall, to see if perhaps something sharp has cut the insualtion and is now grounding.

I would change the above to say, Follow the wires from the distro to your M2, and make sure that the wires aren't stripped, or cut. Did you use Crimp connectors. Are the still insulated fully? Are there little strands of wire hanging out the back of the connector, where the wire enter the crimp connector, that might be grounding on something.

Otherwise, I would run some wire directly to the battery and to the M2 and the amp with out running it through the car, (just jury rig it from the battery to the trunk on the outside of the car) and see if the fuses pop.

Good luck.

Michael"

Also, how is the Xenarc connected. Is it to the M2, or to distro.

THERE IS SOMETHING CAUSING A SHORT. Plain and simple. You just have to locate it. I would bet 10 to 1 odds that it is the M2 is touching something it shouldn't. How did you install the M2 into the case. Are you using standoffs? If the case metal or plastic. How does the M2 case fit in your system, is it mounted in the computer case, or next to it.

Michael

silv3rman · 05-18-2006, 08:36 PM

Michael, I havent done anything yet. I just bought a whole bunch of connectors/fuses online, I need those before I can do further testing. I rechecked the mobo and psu. The standoffs are in the correct position and there are no extras. I sprayed the case and the boards with air just incase there was anything there. I also cleaned up all the wiring so its organized.

The xenarc is powered through the M2. Its connected to the 12V & GRND connector on one of the white connectors (I transformed the xenarc plug into a female connector).

Wiredwrx · 05-18-2006, 08:55 PM

What case did you mount the M2 in?? I knoiw of no case specific to the M2? Extras and in the right place for the standoffs mean nothing if they are in relation to the case. You need to make sure they line up on the MB and the PS.

Can you test the MB and the Xenarc and everything else out of the car in your house. Try powering everything with a regular ATX supply. If you have to remove the cover of the case and leave it off to test with the ATX, then try it in the car the same way, with out the cover.

Like I said, something is shorted.

Michael

silv3rman · 05-18-2006, 09:06 PM

Ive used it using a the PSU it came with and it worked fine. The M2 is compatible with whatever kind of PSU this is: http://store.yahoo.com/directron/cubid2677.html

Wiredwrx · 05-18-2006, 09:16 PM

What do you mean "the M2 is compatible with whatevr kind of psu that is"

Are attempting to power the Cubids PSU with the M2? Did you remove the Cubid PSU?? Do you have pics of the inside of the Cubid the way you have it setup, and also, how it came befor you mounted the M2?

Michael

silv3rman · 05-19-2006, 12:01 AM

I mean the cubid psu is the EXACT same dimensions as the M2. They have the same dimensions and the screw holes are in the exact same spots. Thats all I meant.

silv3rman · 05-22-2006, 07:39 PM

I think that it works fine now. I dont know what the problem was but the fuse didnt blow this time. I havent yet tried with my PCI Card/CD Drive but I will shortly. If there are any other problems Ill be sure to post. Thanks for the help guys.

Specimen · 05-22-2006, 07:55 PM

Just because it doesn't blow now doesn't mean you still don't have a problem. If you have a loose frayed wire, PC board touching something, or something like that causing the problem, then moving the case or wires around might fix it for now, but the second you drive around and vibrate everything, that short could connect to ground again and your back to square one with the blown fuses.