DSATX 220W vs Custom built Mastero/Sproggy 4.5 (Review)

MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 12:50 AM

Alright guys/girls.
My setup:
Mobo+CPU: Asus A7N8X-VM/400 and AMD Mobile Athlon 2500+ Pin Modded.
2x256MB PC2700 RAM. On board sound, and on board VGA.
HD: 3.5" Seagate Barracuda 80G, 7200RPM (0.72A on 5V, 0.35A on 12V)
DVD: 5.25" Maddog 16X (or whatever) DHM-G84R (1.5A on 5V, 2.0A on 12V)
Serial: Simple IR receiver (LIRC hardward).
USB: 4 ports hub =>TS, GPS, Mouse, EB Game Keyboard.
Lilliput run on its own egg.

A little about the Custom built Sproggy 4.5. Since it's custom built by me so it is NOT the same as the one Mastero posted.
I did the PCB. Not the best job, but it works.
Soldered all the components. Not that nice but none felt off the PCB.

Spec:
3.3V -> 5A
5.0V -> 10A + 5A
12.0V -> 5A + 5A
The additional 5A on 5V and 12V rails are there to power the HD and DVD.
My stock Matrix (GM/Delphi made) battery 350CCA didn't handle it. The PC freeze on every cold engine start, but survice cranking at petrol station. So I replaced with a brand new Optima RedTop 900CCA.

System run so far so good for a year. Survive every single crank. Watch DVD for almost 2 hrs and still survive cranking. Good battery isn't it?

Outside temperature according to the car temperature reading.

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 12:52 AM

Sproggy Powering: Car Off.
Asus Probe system monitor

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 12:54 AM

Sproggy Power: Power rail graph. Car off, During cranking and car running.
Asus PC Probe system monitor.

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 12:55 AM

Sproggy Powering: Engine Running.
Asus PC Probe system monitor

No Winamp VIS.

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With Winamp VIS.

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 01:00 AM

Disassembling the system. Sproggy PSU will be in the shelf collecting dust for a while.

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and

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 01:02 AM

Sproggy Size vs DSATX size

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The Sproggy is almost 2x bigger than the DSATX and 10x heavier.

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 01:05 AM

I need to find couple screw/standoff to mount the new PSU. More to come tomorrow as I put everything back and test again.
Okay. The PSU is in.

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Another shot

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Everything is back

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Back side of the PSU

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And the PSU closeup. Note that little RED jumper thinggy on the jumpper block? I make that getto jumper to connect to a push button up front to control the mobo PW switch in additional to the SDC switch.

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MatrixPC · 10-12-2005, 01:11 AM

The PSU is in the car and testing begin.

All wires are connected.

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Out side temperature is 80F
First run: Engine Off and monitored by Asus PC Probe.

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Engine off, during cranking and Engine on

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Road Runner VIS (Winamp VIS)

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Hero playing by FrodoPlayer's DVD

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MatrixPC · 10-14-2005, 01:17 AM

DSATX overall view:
Freaking small and light weight. I like the amp style connector. So far, everything seem to work fine.

The BAD:
- The "user switch": When shorted, 2 second delay and send power pulse to shutdown the PC. This option doesn't work. When shorted, nothing happend. I connected the headers to the NO push button that I also used as Kill Switch on the Sproggy SDC. I also had to verified that the push button WORKS.
- Negative voltage: -12V show as -12.58V, -5V show as -0.0V. I am not 100% sure why or my getto metter doesn't really work. It measure negative voltage on the Sproggy fine, but not this one. But the PSU works on my PC. So I am not sure negative voltage is needed or NOT.
- WinDVD freeze on start up to play DVD on DISC(FrodoPlayer's DVD has hard time but works). I don't have this problem with Sproggy. WindDVD has hard time start up and Frodo DVD is okay. I am thinking that the 5V rail is weak. With my mobo/CPU configuration the system requires a lot of juice on the 5V rail (13A~15A maybe).

The GOOD:
- Start up pulse fire up the PC nicely. The PSU starts the PC regardless of the feature setting (On, Off, Previous state). With Sproggy, I have to set to ON.
- Shutdown. The SDC shutdown the PC after ACC go low for 10 min. I am not sure how long it cut off the power. Doesn't send power pulse if the PC already off (shutdown manually). Sproggy: the PC will restart and gets hard off a minutes later.

The other.
- If I manually turn off the PC (press the power button manually), the PSU is on standby for X minutes when ACC go low then cut off but NOT x minutes when the PC off. I am not sure I like this feature or don't like it. Sometime, when my USB devices go wacko, the only way to get them working again is replug the USB cable/connector or shutdown the PC and wait till the PSU/SDC cut off 5V StandBy and then start the PC again. It is suck that I have to switch off ACC (I do have switch to control ACC line) and wait for X minutes for Standby power to get cut off so I can restart the PC and use again or I have to pull over the side of the road and replug USB devices. Again, the KILL feature (user switch is a MUST).

Voltage observation according to Asus PC Probe for the duration of 2 hrs run. Voltage in {} is NO load (shorted pin14 and 13) and measured by my cheapo meter. Voltage in () is for Sproggy for comparision.
12.0V: between 11.75V ~ 12.15V {12.10V} (11.76V~11.98V {11.99V} for Sproggy)
5.0V: between 4.89V ~ 5.03V {4.99V} vs. (4.78V~5.0V {5.10V})
3.3V: Between 3.23V ~ 3.33V {3.33V} vs. (2.28~3.31V {3.29})
Note: With Sproggy PSU, the HD and DVD ROM are powered by 5V and 12V POL. Voltage measure by Asus Probe aren't measure those POLs (ATX connector only.)

Summary:
Reason to build Sproggy instead of buying the DSATX:
I will build the Sproggy if I want to learn more about electronic stuff. Enjoying DIY. Modified to what you want and proud to said " I build that sucker".

Reason to buy the DSATX instead of building Sproggy:
There are many + on this PSU from size to features.
Critical parts to build Sproggy are HARD TO FIND.

$$$
The Sproggy I build cost about 80~100 bucks in parts (excluding regulator chips and inductors). I put many hrs in perfecting the lazer printout and etching the PCB. At the end I enjoy doing it and learn many thing in the process. Knowledge worth more than any amount of $$. So it is worth every pennies and minutes.
If building the Sproggy is not an option for you, this PSU is a must buy if you need 220W of power. BTW, who doesn't want more power?

I don't know how much Jeff will be selling, but it is worth every pennies if the price is within 200 bucks.
There will be more 200W+ PSU coming ... (DragonBTV, M2-ATX, Opus?, ... )

zootjeff · 10-14-2005, 01:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

The BAD:
- The "user switch": When shorted, 2 second delay and send power pulse to shutdown the PC. This option doesn't work. When shorted, nothing happend. I connected the headers to the NO push button that I also used as Kill Switch on the Sproggy SDC. I also had to verified that the push button WORKS.
- Negative voltage: -12V show as -12.58V, -5V show as -0.0V. I am not 100% sure why or my getto metter doesn't really work. It measure negative voltage on the Sproggy fine, but not this one. But the PSU works on my PC. So I am not sure negative voltage is needed or NOT.
- WinDVD freeze on start up to play DVD on DISC(FrodoPlayer's DVD has hard time but works). I don't have this problem with Sproggy. WindDVD has hard time start up and Frodo DVD is okay. I am thinking that the 5V rail is weak. With my mobo/CPU configuration the system requires a lot of juice on the 5V rail (13A~15A maybe).

1.) The user switch only works when the ACC is low. The LED has to be flashing once indicating it is in the main countdown timer. Here's the idea:
You come home from a long day of chatting with the babes. You pull into your garage and you know you have the shutdown timer set to 10 minutes, you think, there is no reason to let it run for 10 minutes. So you turn off your car, and hit the kill switch. Computer shuts down.

It doesn't kill it when the ACC is on. A switch inline with the ACC is the way to make sure you don't want to use it. I may re-visit this sometime soon though.

2.) The -12V is only +- 10% Most motherboards don't use it. You have to have a load on the +12 volts for it to be stable.

3.) No new power supply has -5 volts these days. The M1-ATX doesn't have it and neither does the OPUS. Motherboards havn't used the -5V since the mid 90s.

4.) It is possible you are overloading the +5. It is only rated at 12 amps.

-Jeff

greenman100 · 10-14-2005, 01:55 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

Note: With Sproggy PSU, the HD and DVD ROM are powered by 5V and 12V POL. Voltage measure by Asus Probe aren't measure those POLs (ATX connector only.)

you need to do this with the DS-ATX, too, to isolate variables, and make you review more trustworthy

MatrixPC · 10-14-2005, 09:06 AM

Tested again this morning.
Drove 35 min from home to work. Pulled in the parking lot and shut the car off. Walked around and double check the PSU's LED if blinking or not. Yup it was blinking. Hit the "User Switch" button, nada. Hit again couple times, and nada. Wait for a min then hit the power button, PC shutting down. Walked back to check the PSU. LED was blinking. Mobo's StandBy LED indicator was ON (meaning the PSU was on stand by). Waited a while, then PSU's LED and mobo's Standby LED was off (meaning PSU cut off power.)
Jeff 1 suggestion. If you can, make the 5V rail a little more powerfull. 15A maybe? Compare between 5V rail and 12V, the 5V rail is definitely weak. Regulating 5V is much easier (I think) than 12V right?

There is plenty of power on 12V but not so much on 5V.
One of my AC PSU has 5A on 3.3V, 18A on 5V, and 4.5A on 12V. This PSU runs my setup perfect. And that is why I custom built my Sproggy as close to that output as possible.

greenman100 That is the reason I put a note there. However, the POL 5V and 12V were built into the Sproggy board. I called it POL because those 2 rails didn't joint together with the 20 pins ATX cable. I can't check those with the DSATX, unless I had to build one.

zootjeff · 10-14-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

Tested again this morning.
Drove 35 min from home to work. Pulled in the parking lot and shut the car off. Walked around and double check the PSU's LED if blinking or not. Yup it was blinking. Hit the "User Switch" button, nada. Hit again couple times, and nada.

Well this is why we have the beta test. Actually the documentation is wrong. It works just fine it is just the wrong pin!!!!!

USER_SW should be on D, SL_SEN should be on E!!! I'll update this drawing soon.

zootjeff · 10-14-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MatrixPC

If you can, make the 5V rail a little more powerfull. 15A maybe? Compare between 5V rail and 12V, the 5V rail is definitely weak. Regulating 5V is much easier (I think) than 12V right?

There is plenty of power on 12V but not so much on 5V.

Wait a sec, how do you know the 5V is weak? If the 5 volt rail falls outside of the 7% range, the DSATX will just shutdown completly, everything will turn off until you cycle ACC. Is that happening or is stuff just "freezing"? There might be something else going on here..

The DSATX is primarly designed for newer motherboards that have the P4 12V connector. This allows the motherboard to split the Main Power Loading between the 5V and 12V. Your motherboard uses the +5 volts to power the CPU along with everything else. You're hardly using the +12 volts at all. I'll look into getting a little more juice out of the 5 volts, but for now, could you try underclocking your CPU a bit to see if that solved the problem?

-Jeff

MatrixPC · 10-14-2005, 12:18 PM

Let see what I can do about the 5V in my case, but that won't happen for a while.

So far I am okay with it cuz I don't always watch DVD on Disc. I'll try to power the DVD drive separately to see if the freezing still happen.