Is the skins forum getting to cluttered?

[Enforcer]

As above, do you think the skins forum is getting too cluttered with unreleased skins and just general questioins about skins to be able to find a current working and released skin?

I do.

I suggest we have a seperate skins forum for skins which have at least been released, maybe called Released skins.

If necessary I would be happy to moderate/move/arrange the current skins forum and the new one so that there is no extra work for Guino.


What do ya all think?

[Blue ZX3]

I am very close to choosing the second Yes option....

You need one more yes option: Yes but Enforcer is only allowed to use notepad to accomplish this task...LOL

[Enforcer]

touche.

[liquid_smoke]

dont think creating another subforum to solve this issue will help any. Mostly will just make things more confusing for new users. So if you post in the new release subforum, what happens after 3 months and your not really considered a new release anymore, but this is where all the discussion around your skin is taking place. So end the end, you end up with 2 subforums with skins, and over time both containing old and new skins.


Now something like this could work, but only if it were very restricted ( i assume by you) and no one was allowed to reply to any post.
The way i see it in my head, is if the subforum was similar to an rss feed.

Title of the thread should be the name of the skin.
one post and one post only from the maker of the skin that includes a screenshot, version number of the skin and link to its discussion thread and download for the skin.

If you update you skin to a new version, just edit that one post in the Release subforum and your release is at the top as the most recently updated.

IMO if anything else is posted in this subforum, it makes the whole thing useless as it will soon also get cluttered up and hard to find things. It should be used solely as a method to see all released skins and most recently updated skins.

[MGD]

We should do it like the "Show off your project" or "Work in progress"
Like skins released or skins in progress.

[Enforcer]

Quote: Originally Posted by liquid_smoke

dont think creating another subforum to solve this issue will help any. Mostly will just make things more confusing for new users. So if you post in the new release subforum, what happens after 3 months and your not really considered a new release anymore, but this is where all the discussion around your skin is taking place. So end the end, you end up with 2 subforums with skins, and over time both containing old and new skins.


Now something like this could work, but only if it were very restricted ( i assume by you) and no one was allowed to reply to any post.
The way i see it in my head, is if the subforum was similar to an rss feed.

Title of the thread should be the name of the skin.
one post and one post only from the maker of the skin that includes a screenshot, version number of the skin and link to its discussion thread and download for the skin.

If you update you skin to a new version, just edit that one post in the Release subforum and your release is at the top as the most recently updated.

IMO if anything else is posted in this subforum, it makes the whole thing useless as it will soon also get cluttered up and hard to find things. It should be used solely as a method to see all released skins and most recently updated skins.

That's similar to what I had in mind.

Although I was thinking that the threads could be reponded to as they can on a normal thread. (but maybe your idea is better)

The main thing is to have skins which work and are not vapourware or wishiful thinking designs that never happen.

And it wouldn't be a new release forum, just a release forum. (could be a last updated : dd/mm/yyyy added to the title/first post as well.

[JohnWPB]

Quote: Originally Posted by liquid_smoke

dont think creating another subforum to solve this issue will help any. Mostly will just make things more confusing for new users. So if you post in the new release subforum, what happens after 3 months and your not really considered a new release anymore,

LS, I think you read it incorrectly.... The new section would be "new" and be titled "Released Skins", NOT "new released skins" The wording on the poll is a bit screwy there Enforcer and does lend some confusion

Actually, I do think this is a great idea. But with some guidelines laid out.

First and foremost, no new threads could be started in the section. Meaning, the skin has to be released in the normal skins thread, and moved to the new section by some sort of moderator or volunteer (Enforcer ) From then on, people can reply to each individual skin thread without restriction.

To be moved in the first place, it should be a released skin, that is at least complete enough to be useful. All of the main stuff for instance: Music, Audio, GPS, Weather, Launch ect. The skin would not need every bell and whistle, plugin and such, but at least be functional.

Also to be moved, it would need a list of the features the skin supports, as well as screen shots of some of the main screens in the first post of the thread.

When I started looking for skins, when I was new to the forums, it was a bit of a pain. Kinda of hit and miss. Download and install one, just to find it didn't have weather or some other feature I wanted. Just a simple list of the main features of the skin, would help people immensely finding a skin that suits their needs.

So if a skinner wants their skin moved to the new section, they must edit the first post in their thread to include these items. This would be mandatory. If someone wants their skin added, its not hard to list the features and include a few screen captures.

Doing this will definitely weed out all of the "What do you think of a skin like this" that just has a image of what the skin would look like it it ever was created

As mentioned, it would also weed out all of the questions, and posts in the skins forum, that are not skins at all, but discussions.

This being done, could completely replace the "List of skins" that is a sticky, that has never changed or been updated in over a year.

[GizmoQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnWPB

To be moved in the first place, it should be a released skin, that is at least complete enough to be useful. All of the main stuff for instance: Music, Audio, GPS, Weather, Launch ect. The skin would not need every bell and whistle, plugin and such, but at least be functional.

O.K. I agree 100%, now the hard part - define complete enough to be useful. Also, one skin my daughter likes playing around with hasn't been updated since beta release. Updates are posted piecemeal from the author and users, so users can pick and choose which to incorporate. So if he wants his skin in the new subforum, let's see he needs to describe the beta, list its basic functions, reference the skin thread, and then list and reference each enhancement added to his skin by himself and others (oh by the way, since users are also posting additions - some conflict, some are different styles for the same function, some are user specific customization of the original, etc., etc., etc.) Who sorts through the noise?

[JohnWPB]

Quote: Originally Posted by GizmoQ

O.K. I agree 100%, now the hard part - define complete enough to be useful.

That is a question that came to my mind right away, and why I worded the post so carefully. and did not just say "Completed skins" as that is VERY hard to define for sure! Personally, I can not think of a skin that has been posted as "released" that does not have at least the very basic stuff. Main Menu (Mandatory for RR to use it actually) Audio browser & player, Video Browser & player. Thats enough to be "useful" in my opinion. Then the potential user can look at the list of features, and see if is enough for what they want. It couldn't be simpler.

The following is just my opinion... nothing more, nothing less

On the other hand, Lets try not to over complicate things. There are going to be exceptions and such, but the basic rule of thumb is to just weed out the vapor ware and questions, discussions, and even plugins, and have a "true" skin forum.

The skin does not have to support everything Road Runner, or even be very good at all honestly, and is not some sort of contest, or best of the best in any way..... Its just a way to try to weed out all the clutter, and have some sort of standard, making it easier for people to choose a skin thats right for them. Currently skin info is all over the place! the "List of skins" thread, thats quite outdated, as one person has to edit and determine what one may be missing from the list. (With a new forum section, move the skin to that forum, and thats it.) There's the list on Guino's site, The current skin thread, and at least 3 other web pages I can think of that have tried to put everything in one place. Well this forum is the perfect place for this, and a "one stop shop" instead of going to multiple sites and trying to find the info.

And, Yes, sorry, but if someone wants their skin in the new section, they will have to list it's main features and post a few screen shots. Thats just NOT that hard to do. 95% of the released skins authors have done this already. If they do not want to take the time to do it, its not the end of the world, as it will still be in the current skins forum.

As to the skin you are referring to, no, all of that does not have to be done at all. In it's current thread, there are screen captures in the first post and some mention of features already. The additions from the users will still be in the thread, that anyone can download and add to the existing state of the released skin. This makes it very "simple"

There just have to be some sort of guidelines in place.... There just has to be, and I personally think they need to be very very basic guidelines. Think about it, if there are no guidelines, rules, or format, & anyone can post any skin, completed or not....well........... We basically end up with the current skin forum, and don't have to do anything at all

[Valheru]

I think this is a very good idea - especially for new people trying to find a "starter" skin to get them going. It does need some careful moderation and planning but I think it could work well.

Personally (and this is just my tuppence worth) I think a mixture of suggestions from LS and JohnWPB would make the best solution.

Firstly potential skins are presented / discussed etc in the normal skins forum. Once they are "completed" or judged ready to release by the author, they can request to have the thread moved to the new "Released Skins" forum by the good Enforcer who would perhaps also update a single list of "Released Skins" available as a sticky on the top of the new forum. This way we have a single (easy to read/navigate/find) list of released skins linking to the relevent threads in the same new "Released Skins" forum. To be released the thread must have as it's first post a screen shot of the skin, a list of it's working features, and a link to download it - not sure about having version numbers. The thread name should only contain the skin name. Relies should be allowed in the new forum but no new posts. And replies need to relate to that skin only ... no hijacking of the threads for other type questions ... this is where there needs to be a strong moderator available ... Are you still interested Enforcer ?

For a skin to be considered "Released" it needs as JohnWPB said, a main menu, audio player & browser and video player & broswer. All other functions should be optional extra's and I'm even starting to think that the video player & browser may even be optional as most people start off just wanting to manage / play their music collections !

Anyway ... that's my take on the plan ... and I did also vote !

[jonessc]

I would make things easier def

[Enforcer]

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnWPB

LS, I think you read it incorrectly.... The new section would be "new" and be titled "Released Skins", NOT "new released skins" The wording on the poll is a bit screwy there Enforcer and does lend some confusion .

Hence the 'new' was all lower case and 'Released Skins Only' had capital letters at begininng of the words. Sorry for the confusion (can't believe I said that)

Quote: Originally Posted by GizmoQ

O.K. I agree 100%, now the hard part - define complete enough to be useful. ...............Who sorts through the noise?

Complete to be useful would be that it works.

Each skin would be downloaded and tested by the Moderator(s) (no DP and Red this does not mean you ) and if it works and has the basics (this can be discussed or left upto the Mod(s)) then it's in.

The Mod(s) sort out the noise

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnWPB

That is a question that came to my mind right away, and why I worded the post so carefully. and did not just say "Completed skins" as that is VERY hard to define for sure! Personally, I can not think of a skin that has been posted as "released" that does not have at least the very basic stuff. Main Menu (Mandatory for RR to use it actually) Audio browser & player, Video Browser & player. Thats enough to be "useful" in my opinion. Then the potential user can look at the list of features, and see if is enough for what they want. It couldn't be simpler.

The following is just my opinion... nothing more, nothing less

On the other hand, Lets try not to over complicate things. There are going to be exceptions and such, but the basic rule of thumb is to just weed out the vapor ware and questions, discussions, and even plugins, and have a "true" skin forum.

The skin does not have to support everything Road Runner, or even be very good at all honestly, and is not some sort of contest, or best of the best in any way..... Its just a way to try to weed out all the clutter, and have some sort of standard, making it easier for people to choose a skin thats right for them. Currently skin info is all over the place! the "List of skins" thread, thats quite outdated, as one person has to edit and determine what one may be missing from the list. (With a new forum section, move the skin to that forum, and thats it.) There's the list on Guino's site, The current skin thread, and at least 3 other web pages I can think of that have tried to put everything in one place. Well this forum is the perfect place for this, and a "one stop shop" instead of going to multiple sites and trying to find the info.

And, Yes, sorry, but if someone wants their skin in the new section, they will have to list it's main features and post a few screen shots. Thats just NOT that hard to do. 95% of the released skins authors have done this already. If they do not want to take the time to do it, its not the end of the world, as it will still be in the current skins forum.

As to the skin you are referring to, no, all of that does not have to be done at all. In it's current thread, there are screen captures in the first post and some mention of features already. The additions from the users will still be in the thread, that anyone can download and add to the existing state of the released skin. This makes it very "simple"

There just have to be some sort of guidelines in place.... There just has to be, and I personally think they need to be very very basic guidelines. Think about it, if there are no guidelines, rules, or format, & anyone can post any skin, completed or not....well........... We basically end up with the current skin forum, and don't have to do anything at all

Quote: Originally Posted by Valheru

I think this is a very good idea - especially for new people trying to find a "starter" skin to get them going. It does need some careful moderation and planning but I think it could work well.

Personally (and this is just my tuppence worth) I think a mixture of suggestions from LS and JohnWPB would make the best solution.

Firstly potential skins are presented / discussed etc in the normal skins forum. Once they are "completed" or judged ready to release by the author, they can request to have the thread moved to the new "Released Skins" forum by the good Enforcer who would perhaps also update a single list of "Released Skins" available as a sticky on the top of the new forum. This way we have a single (easy to read/navigate/find) list of released skins linking to the relevent threads in the same new "Released Skins" forum. To be released the thread must have as it's first post a screen shot of the skin, a list of it's working features, and a link to download it - not sure about having version numbers. The thread name should only contain the skin name. Relies should be allowed in the new forum but no new posts. And replies need to relate to that skin only ... no hijacking of the threads for other type questions ... this is where there needs to be a strong moderator available ... Are you still interested Enforcer ?

For a skin to be considered "Released" it needs as JohnWPB said, a main menu, audio player & browser and video player & broswer. All other functions should be optional extra's and I'm even starting to think that the video player & browser may even be optional as most people start off just wanting to manage / play their music collections !

Anyway ... that's my take on the plan ... and I did also vote !

Oh, no hijacking of the thread? Ok maybe I step down then?

[Valheru]

God help us all if the MOD's start hi-jacking the forums ...

[ThunderStick]

IF you follow the same format as used inthe show off your ride section, I think this could work.
incomplete skins subforum and a completed skins subforum, in which you post your completed skin, after most or all of the bugs are taken care of. Then close your thread immediately, hence illiminating clutter and off topic subject. Maybe even a moderator to control what and who has access to post in the completed section.
I suppose you could have 3 subs. Incomplete, Complete and Q&A or How to.

But I do agree, the amount of un-released or incomplete skins is getting to be a phenomonal number and the off topic subject matter is also bordering out of control.

[tja]

i lurk over at the www.aqua-soft.org forums a bit.. and they have a separate subfolder for skin releases... they ALSO have a tagging system for the posts... such as RELEASE, PREVIEW, HELP, etcetc..

so each post title would be like:

PREVIEW: My new skin I'm working on but probably wont release this century!!!
RELEASE: Shock V10
HELP: winamp wont play after installing 30/9/7 RR!!!!

seems to work really well over there.