WuNgUn PIC'S-Water cooled car PC 95% done! - Page 3

WuNgUn · 04-25-2009, 08:50 AM

Thanks Glu!

HiJackZX1 · 04-25-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by WuNgUn

Yeah, the CF forum doesn't really have a catagory for this exactly...lol

And thanks!

Yup, tweeters...2-way speakers in each corner...in my car, I'm running 'active' crossover, so there is seperate speaker wiring running from the speakers all the way to my amps...
The tweeters are on a seperate channel than the drivers are.
On a 'passive' crossover setup, you basically use hardware crossovers instead of processing the audio. All in all, they acomplish the same thing really...
Here is a pic of one of the crossovers (which I Ebay'd)

If you want to go with tweeter, then you'll want crossovers.
Some 'co-axial' speakers (which are 2 and 3 way) have a basic kinda crossover already made up on the speakers themselves...

Thanx for explaining. I am thinking that once the PC is done, I am going to upgrade my speakers and amps, but go the passive crossover route. I want to put a tweeter in each pillar, so thats a total of 6 tweeters. Any AMP recommendations? I have a total of 9 speakers right now, so I need a AMP that can do all that, and it has to be small enough yo fit in my compartment.

WuNgUn · 04-25-2009, 10:15 AM

Most sound quality enthusiast prefer or recommend running just a front stage, and when done properly, works really well...
Your car should have a 'stage', where the sound appears to be coming from out in front of you, but also, doesn't leave any 'holes' behind you...
Some systems are setup so nice that you'd swear the sound was coming from somewhere out over your hood!!
You should also be able to percieve depth in the stage, as well as hear where the sound is coming from, left to right or center stage...

I don't want to recommend anything specific, because everyone has a different budget or wants and needs...
With that said, I just LOVE my pair of 65 watt TRU amps! Simply beautiful...

Myself, I run a front and rear speaker setup...and actually, in my car, the rear speakers are actually CLOSER to my ears than the front speakers are! I can correct for this, to an extent, with level and time alignment settings...
But I think once I get the Acourate and Pristine Space setup working, it's going to have excellent 'presence'...

HiJackZX1 · 04-25-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by WuNgUn

Most sound quality enthusiast prefer or recommend running just a front stage, and when done properly, works really well...
Your car should have a 'stage', where the sound appears to be coming from out in front of you, but also, doesn't leave any 'holes' behind you...
Some systems are setup so nice that you'd swear the sound was coming from somewhere out over your hood!!
You should also be able to percieve depth in the stage, as well as hear where the sound is coming from, left to right or center stage...

I don't want to recommend anything specific, because everyone has a different budget or wants and needs...
With that said, I just LOVE my pair of 65 watt TRU amps! Simply beautiful...

Myself, I run a front and rear speaker setup...and actually, in my car, the rear speakers are actually CLOSER to my ears than the front speakers are! I can correct for this, to an extent, with level and time alignment settings...
But I think once I get the Acourate and Pristine Space setup working, it's going to have excellent 'presence'...

Well my setup is setup in 7.1 surround sound mode because I wanted movies and games to sound amazing. I have the front center speaker for movie voice, but when it comes to music, you don't really hear anything come out of it. When you say FRONT Stage I don't know what your talking about, I'm a ULTRA Newb at car audio. I hear mixed things about AMPS, some people say they have to be uber good AMPS, and others say they can be what ever, all that matters is the speakers and sound card. As you can see I use Motorcycle Amps. Each AMP is 150 Watts, the bigger one is 650W for SUB. When I turn up the music full blast though it sounds very distorted, I don't know if its the AMPS, or the speakers. I think it may be the speakers because they are factory. How would I be able to tell why it sounds like that on high?

WuNgUn · 04-25-2009, 11:10 AM

A good place for this sorta info would be http://www.diymobileaudio.com/

When I say 'stage', I'm basically refering to comparing what you hear in your car to what you hear at a theater, concert or other stage performances...in these venues, you get a sense for where the music is coming from...hence, 'stage'. So in your car, the ideal sound would be trying to recreate this stage. Not easily accomplished, principally, with speakers!

I think EVERY component in your system plays a part in the sound quality! From speakers to amps, to cabling and wire, to power and ground. It ALL matters! Think of your system as a chain. It's only going to be as good as the weakest link, right? When building a system, you want to consider the effects of every single component.

When you play your music 'full blast', you causing 'clipping'...and basically, this is what it looks like...
http://i25.tinypic.com/2drfax4.png
The 'edge' of the wave form is being squared-off, or clipped, which causes distortion, and is very harmful to your equipment! The sound waves are s'pose to be nice, smooth, rounded, natural sound wave...not square-form...

You can use an ocilliscope to figure out what and when your equipment is clipping, but it's not totally necassary...
Your amps probably have a gain adjustment...first off, turn them ALL the way down. Sure, it's not going to be as loud, but trust me, you'll be better off...
Most PC sound cards won't go so loud as to cause clipping, but if they do, you can adjust the 'wave' volume seperately from the main volume. Turn your wave volume all the way dowm, and crank up your main volume, and play some music...
SLIGHTLY increase the wave volume, and see if you notice distortion.
If not, keep raising the volume up until you start hearing distortion. At this point, you basically reached the hardware limitations of your equipment. This is the loudest you should be listening to your music. Set the wave volume at JUST below this setting and leave it there!
If you hit max volume, but hear no distortion, then do the same thing with your amp gains. Max out your volumes, and slowly increase your gains, one amp at a time, until you hear distortion, then back it down a notch...

Your factory speakers, I'm sorry to say, are likely garbage. Even upgraded, optional speakers from the car manufacturers are a poor excuse for quality speakers...
This is where you should initially be spending your money on upgrades...

Your amps, while rated at 150 watts, are actually putting out far, FAR less than that. I'd guess, probably closer to 20 or 30 watts RMS...lower quality amps usually use marketing hype to rate their power. While not entirely false, it's not a rating generally associated with music power these days...
Quality, audiophile amps will give you a meaningful rating numbers...
My TRU's for example, are 'only' rated at 65watts, but I know they put out good, clean musical power to at least that wattage...
I run them with the gains ALL the way off, and my wave volume at just over half, and I've never had the main volume higher than half either...it's simply THAT loud.

HiJackZX1 · 04-25-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by WuNgUn

A good place for this sorta info would be http://www.diymobileaudio.com/

When I say 'stage', I'm basically refering to comparing what you hear in your car to what you hear at a theater, concert or other stage performances...in these venues, you get a sense for where the music is coming from...hence, 'stage'. So in your car, the ideal sound would be trying to recreate this stage. Not easily accomplished, principally, with speakers!

I think EVERY component in your system plays a part in the sound quality! From speakers to amps, to cabling and wire, to power and ground. It ALL matters! Think of your system as a chain. It's only going to be as good as the weakest link, right? When building a system, you want to consider the effects of every single component.

When you play your music 'full blast', you causing 'clipping'...and basically, this is what it looks like...
http://i25.tinypic.com/2drfax4.png
The 'edge' of the wave form is being squared-off, or clipped, which causes distortion, and is very harmful to your equipment! The sound waves are s'pose to be nice, smooth, rounded, natural sound wave...not square-form...

You can use an ocilliscope to figure out what and when your equipment is clipping, but it's not totally necassary...
Your amps probably have a gain adjustment...first off, turn them ALL the way down. Sure, it's not going to be as loud, but trust me, you'll be better off...
Most PC sound cards won't go so loud as to cause clipping, but if they do, you can adjust the 'wave' volume seperately from the main volume. Turn your wave volume all the way dowm, and crank up your main volume, and play some music...
SLIGHTLY increase the wave volume, and see if you notice distortion.
If not, keep raising the volume up until you start hearing distortion. At this point, you basically reached the hardware limitations of your equipment. This is the loudest you should be listening to your music. Set the wave volume at JUST below this setting and leave it there!
If you hit max volume, but hear no distortion, then do the same thing with your amp gains. Max out your volumes, and slowly increase your gains, one amp at a time, until you hear distortion, then back it down a notch...

Your factory speakers, I'm sorry to say, are likely garbage. Even upgraded, optional speakers from the car manufacturers are a poor excuse for quality speakers...
This is where you should initially be spending your money on upgrades...

Your amps, while rated at 150 watts, are actually putting out far, FAR less than that. I'd guess, probably closer to 20 or 30 watts RMS...lower quality amps usually use marketing hype to rate their power. While not entirely false, it's not a rating generally associated with music power these days...
Quality, audiophile amps will give you a meaningful rating numbers...
My TRU's for example, are 'only' rated at 65watts, but I know they put out good, clean musical power to at least that wattage...
I run them with the gains ALL the way off, and my wave volume at just over half, and I've never had the main volume higher than half either...it's simply THAT loud.

UGHHHH My head hurts already, lol. I know the speakers most deaf have to go. The cabling is from Lightning Audio, so I think thats OK. The AMPS though, thats going to be a pain in the @$$ because I have so many..... Do they make a 8 Channel AMP, lol. For the SUB i'll keep my 650W AMP.

PS: I'll go with two 4 channel AMPS. What is the RMS per speaker I should go with? One that is loud but not tooooo loud.

WuNgUn · 04-25-2009, 02:37 PM

2X4's would be a nice choice...
Have a look at the reviews over here...BTW, here is a review of my speakers,
http://www.caraudiomag.com/testrepor...prs/index.html

You may find some nice quality amp's here that may be a good choice...money is always a factor as well though, so...
As far as matching them to speakers, RMS is a good guideline, so long as your comparing apples to apples...
If the drivers can handle 100+ watts RMS, then that outta be ample for most people...especially if your running 4 or 6 of 'em!

freeflashstuff · 04-25-2009, 11:23 PM

*OFF TOPIC*

YAY!!!! I'm not the only one that uses Wavepad!! LOL

*Back on Topic*

I work in the sound area of my church, so I can tell when my music clips by just hearing it. But the oscilloscope can really help if you can't tell simply by sound. Sound is the one thing besides setting up and configuring my CarPC I didn't need help with. If you weren't so far away I could help you... *trails off*

Ericdd · 04-26-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

OMG, I never saw this, well not the whole thing, not much on the CF forums, lol.....

do you have a link to the CF forum??? I'm guessing thats carbon fiber right??

szfish · 04-27-2009, 02:06 AM

relly nice!
thanks for sharing.

Pathos · 04-29-2009, 07:34 PM

Wow.....such a little car with (implemented) big ideas.....job well done especially getting the dual Xonars working in unison, something like that i wouldn't get working till I was too old to drive anymore

Bxsteez · 04-29-2009, 08:22 PM

WuNgUn,

Did you build that board for ur car buttons urself or did you get that some where?

WuNgUn · 04-30-2009, 07:02 AM

It looks homemade, but I bought it off a member here some time ago...

WuNgUn · 05-01-2009, 08:20 PM

Okay...trunk is done...well, sorta. I think I'm going to add 1 more LED strip to the back of the false floor...
And the upholserer needs to fix those wrinkles!! WTF! I knew I should of did it myself!

And with the lights...

Bxsteez · 05-01-2009, 08:37 PM

I like the texture of that false bottom. I don't know if its texture or just a fabric covering but its NICE!!!!

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