2004 VW R32 Install - NOT DIAL-UP FRIENDLY - Page 10

R32 JUhl · 08-09-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by NeckPayne

Glad things worked out with the server....I went through that site and the majority of the contestants were ridiculous (i.e. - no shot in hell).

Anyway...any chance of you including a wiring diagram on how to get that monsoon amp to turn on when using the carpc instead of the HU? Its the only thing keeping me from buying the components and at this point I'd really like this project to get in the way of life

Thanks!

Sorry to keep you waiting for that wiring diagram. Hope this helps!

BTW, Teresa is a finalist in the contest. We're in Vegas this weekend!

Fuzzball · 08-10-2005, 08:07 AM

It's been a long time. I'm starting to get the carputer bug again. I know I shouldn't with my job still in limbo. Anyways, glad to see you're hitched, fixed the Monsoon issue, and still breathing.

I just need a little confirmation in what you found out about the amp. In searching the 'tex, most of the articles state that the Monsoon amp isn't truly an amp and the inputs must at be speaker-level and not line-level. The stock HU did most of the amplification and replacing it with an aftermarket HU would require using the builtin amp. I am going to assume that most of these threads were for the Single Din stock HU present in the 1999.5-2001(maybe 2002) Mark IVs.

From reading what you've done, it looks like you're putting line-level to the monsoon amp. This suggests the Double Din Monsoon setup in 2002(maybe 2002.5)-2005 Mark IVs has a true amp that does all of the amplification and the HU doesn't do any amplification.

Would you concur on this or have I missed something?

R32 JUhl · 08-10-2005, 08:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Fuzzball

It's been a long time. I'm starting to get the carputer bug again. I know I shouldn't with my job still in limbo. Anyways, glad to see you're hitched, fixed the Monsoon issue, and still breathing.

I just need a little confirmation in what you found out about the amp. In searching the 'tex, most of the articles state that the Monsoon amp isn't truly an amp and the inputs must at be speaker-level and not line-level. The stock HU did most of the amplification and replacing it with an aftermarket HU would require using the builtin amp. I am going to assume that most of these threads were for the Single Din stock HU present in the 1999.5-2001(maybe 2002) Mark IVs.

From reading what you've done, it looks like you're putting line-level to the monsoon amp. This suggests the Double Din Monsoon setup in 2002(maybe 2002.5)-2005 Mark IVs has a true amp that does all of the amplification and the HU doesn't do any amplification.

Would you concur on this or have I missed something?

I concur 100%!

I measured the A/C output of the speakers before the Monsoon Amp - after the radio, in other words. And since it's a rapidly varying signal and it is dependent on whatever music is being played, it is not an exact science! But my readings were roughly 200 mV - roughly the same voltage you will measure directly out of your carputer. The graduated volume level display on the VW HU and the computer's volume can be set to identical levels (graphically). From there, it's easy to verify that the line-level voltages are very close to the same.

I conducted some trial and error testing using the misinformation on the boards (here and 'tex) about "amped" inputs and the results were horrific - lots of speaker popping and screaming going on!

We missed you at the R32 GTG, by the way! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...15933#22315933

NeckPayne · 08-10-2005, 06:47 PM

I thought previously you had said to put the 5v signal through the common or (-) line?? Guess I totally misunderstood.

Thanks for posting this!!!

R32 JUhl · 08-10-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by NeckPayne

I thought previously you had said to put the 5v signal through the common or (-) line?? Guess I totally misunderstood.

Thanks for posting this!!!

The diagram is corrected to show connection to the common line. I verified that our R is wired according to the corrected schematic. Thank you for correcting my mistake - I was running off memory - foggy memory, at that!

alimh · 08-11-2005, 01:42 AM

still a little confused...
you're putting line-level (about 200mv peak) into the monsoon and it's working properly? If on my motherboard I don't have line out, but rather speaker out (since this is about 3v peak), i need to get a speaker to line-level convertor?

The common (-) is the same for both left and right channels right, since the line-out or speaker out only has left, right, and common. Putting the 5v on the left common will also put it on the right channel too, correct?

R32 JUhl · 08-11-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by alimh

still a little confused...
you're putting line-level (about 200mv peak) into the monsoon and it's working properly? If on my motherboard I don't have line out, but rather speaker out (since this is about 3v peak), i need to get a speaker to line-level convertor?

Well, I never said my 200 mV was "peak", so let's make sure we have that clear for starters. I put the radio and the carputer at half volume and 200 mV is what I was reading with the music I was playing. I have no clue what the peak output was. And no, you don't need a converter. Plug directly into the port you would normally plug your desktop speakers into. Perhaps I chose the improper verbiage when saying "line level". For simplification, just use the port you'd normally use for your speakers.

Quote: Originally Posted by alimh

The common (-) is the same for both left and right channels right, since the line-out or speaker out only has left, right, and common. Putting the 5v on the left common will also put it on the right channel too, correct?

From the factory, each common/ground (-) has its own designated wire. If you're going to tie them all together, then yes, you'll be applying it to the right channel as well. Some guys are using multi-channel sound cards so they have designated commons for each channel. Applying power to the right channel common doesn't harm anything! What we found was the left common turned it on and the right common could KEEP it on, if powered. But it did not cause any adverse effects.

alimh · 08-11-2005, 11:00 AM

all right! that's great news. that's all I wantd to hear!

I'll be trying mine by the end of the week.

THanks for the help!

turbocad6 · 08-14-2005, 04:01 PM

hey, great install in a great car..... 400+hp...... that's a nice ride.... & although shes not exactly a "sleeper" I'm sure she shocks her oponents..... do you use the pc for any data logging or performance measuring... I'd asume you defanately use it for tunning....

vdoubleu · 08-15-2005, 07:38 PM

what i did was this. i stole the 5v from the computer (red wire) with 18 gauge wire then simply connected it to the left common. the audio is split this way, a 1/8 to rca cable from the computer...spliced and soldered into 4 lines of 18 gauge speaker wire for FR, FF, RR, and RF. anything connecting to the monsoon amp was connected at the grey harness on the amp with radioshack tap line connectors.

now the problems. When i connect a separate ipod to the 1/8", sound is GREAT. no noise, just clean sound. HOWEVER, when i connect it to my sound card, i get FULL volume noise, if the lilliput is getting absolutely no power (ie, unplugged). If I plug the lilliput on, its gone...all sound is gone. (ipod would still work if lilliput is on). Now, my pc is running off of a inverter, and the noise starts when i turn the inverter on, not the amp. so since the computer is not on, then there is no 5v, meaning amp is off. but still lots of noise.....
I can sort of get it working if I only insert the plug halfway into the sound card... sounds like crap tho

help please....

Sorry bout the inconsistent writing...im really freakin frustrated....it worked briefly yesterday with lots of noise. I tested everything separtely. pc sound works, car speakers work...connections are good cuz ipod works... just throw everything together and its hell.

vdoubleu · 08-15-2005, 07:41 PM

oh, and theres a 10k resistor in series of the 5v turn on.....

colorless · 08-15-2005, 10:16 PM

R32 JUhl if you are still getting ground noise you can put a dc filter inline to where you are entering the 5v from the regulator. what i did was placed 2- 1000uF 35V electroletic caps with the negaivtes tied together and the positive of each cap is the input and output this will make sure the dc is not getting back into the computer or leaving the computer into the amp.

alimh · 08-16-2005, 02:23 AM

I need some advice now...

This is my setup:
I have a 1/8'' connector (regular stereo) that has 3 pins (left, right, and common). The left wire connects to the LF+ and LR+ of the monsoon. The right signal from the 1/8'' connets to the RF+ and RR+ of the monsoon. The common from the 1/8'' connects to the LF-, LR-, RF-, and RR- of the monsoon as well as a 5v signal from the m1-atx power supply (red wire).

The amp turns on and I hear a little bit of static to confirm... The computer turns on fine... but when I plug the speaker 1/8'' plug into the computer, everything shuts off! This only happens when both the speaker 1/8'' plug AND the 5v turn on are on. Any ideas?

Also, I used the 5v from the m1-atx but plugged the 1/8'' connector to the output of my laptop sound card and it works perfect!

I think it might be a grounding issue... maybe the 5v is going back to the soundcard (which is grounded?) so there is a short. Also, somebody in the thread mentioned that their setup was getting really hot... maybe mine shuts off but theirs is still shorting but instead of turnng off just getting really hot. I guess I need to put a capacitor to block out the DC from coming back into the soundcard, but I don't understand exactly where to put it...

Any help would be much appreciated!

R32 JUhl · 08-16-2005, 07:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

hey, great install in a great car..... 400+hp...... that's a nice ride.... & although shes not exactly a "sleeper" I'm sure she shocks her oponents..... do you use the pc for any data logging or performance measuring... I'd asume you defanately use it for tunning....

Thanks man! We haven't stepped up to the turbo system just yet. The plan all along was to use this system for monitoring and tuning, but Teresa has kept us very busy with a variety of modeling contests. Maybe this winter things will calm down and I'll get to finish the install.

Quote: Originally Posted by vdoubleu

what i did was this. i stole the 5v from the computer (red wire) with 18 gauge wire then simply connected it to the left common. the audio is split this way, a 1/8 to rca cable from the computer...spliced and soldered into 4 lines of 18 gauge speaker wire for FR, FF, RR, and RF. anything connecting to the monsoon amp was connected at the grey harness on the amp with radioshack tap line connectors.

now the problems. When i connect a separate ipod to the 1/8", sound is GREAT. no noise, just clean sound. HOWEVER, when i connect it to my sound card, i get FULL volume noise, if the lilliput is getting absolutely no power (ie, unplugged). If I plug the lilliput on, its gone...all sound is gone. (ipod would still work if lilliput is on). Now, my pc is running off of a inverter, and the noise starts when i turn the inverter on, not the amp. so since the computer is not on, then there is no 5v, meaning amp is off. but still lots of noise.....
I can sort of get it working if I only insert the plug halfway into the sound card... sounds like crap tho

help please....

Sorry bout the inconsistent writing...im really freakin frustrated....it worked briefly yesterday with lots of noise. I tested everything separtely. pc sound works, car speakers work...connections are good cuz ipod works... just throw everything together and its hell.

Since there is a thread dedicated to this in another forum, I'm going to address your concern in that thread.

Quote: Originally Posted by colorless

R32 JUhl if you are still getting ground noise you can put a dc filter inline to where you are entering the 5v from the regulator. what i did was placed 2- 1000uF 35V electroletic caps with the negaivtes tied together and the positive of each cap is the input and output this will make sure the dc is not getting back into the computer or leaving the computer into the amp.

Thanks, but the problem is related to noise on the from the power supply. Every click of the hard drive and input from a USB device can be heard through the speakers. I believe it's the result of improper grounding of my motherboard. Once I have time to address, I will... and I'll report back.

Quote: Originally Posted by alimh

I need some advice now...

This is my setup:
I have a 1/8'' connector (regular stereo) that has 3 pins (left, right, and common). The left wire connects to the LF+ and LR+ of the monsoon. The right signal from the 1/8'' connets to the RF+ and RR+ of the monsoon. The common from the 1/8'' connects to the LF-, LR-, RF-, and RR- of the monsoon as well as a 5v signal from the m1-atx power supply (red wire).

The amp turns on and I hear a little bit of static to confirm... The computer turns on fine... but when I plug the speaker 1/8'' plug into the computer, everything shuts off! This only happens when both the speaker 1/8'' plug AND the 5v turn on are on. Any ideas?

Also, I used the 5v from the m1-atx but plugged the 1/8'' connector to the output of my laptop sound card and it works perfect!

I think it might be a grounding issue... maybe the 5v is going back to the soundcard (which is grounded?) so there is a short. Also, somebody in the thread mentioned that their setup was getting really hot... maybe mine shuts off but theirs is still shorting but instead of turnng off just getting really hot. I guess I need to put a capacitor to block out the DC from coming back into the soundcard, but I don't understand exactly where to put it...

Any help would be much appreciated!

Since there is a thread dedicated to this in another forum, I'm going to address your concern in that thread.

This thread needs to get back on topic.

Fuzzball · 08-22-2005, 07:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by R32 JUhl

I concur 100%!

I measured the A/C output of the speakers before the Monsoon Amp - after the radio, in other words. And since it's a rapidly varying signal and it is dependent on whatever music is being played, it is not an exact science! But my readings were roughly 200 mV - roughly the same voltage you will measure directly out of your carputer. The graduated volume level display on the VW HU and the computer's volume can be set to identical levels (graphically). From there, it's easy to verify that the line-level voltages are very close to the same.

I conducted some trial and error testing using the misinformation on the boards (here and 'tex) about "amped" inputs and the results were horrific - lots of speaker popping and screaming going on!

Rock-on. I appreciate you going through the BS to find that out. This will make my life much easier.

Quote: Originally Posted by R32 JUhl

We missed you at the R32 GTG, by the way! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...15933#22315933

Doh!!! I can't believe I missed that. I've been out of pocket for a while due to being in the middle of nowhere training my replacements.

Hopefully I can make it next time.