Wanting to learn some programming, help me pick a language! - Page 2

frodobaggins · 09-16-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by RS3RS

Visual Basic: I've always kind of heard that this is a not so powerful language, and have many times heared of it laughed at and not considered a "real" programming language by many people. I've always thought this to be true, until I saw Frodo Player... What's the general opinion on this? Is it powerful enough to mess with learning? How about for stuff once you get past the basic carputer front end, is it a powerful enough language to be used to write general computer utilities, etc?

VB6 is a very capable and powerful language. There is almost nothing you
cannot do with it. (Especially if you know C++ too). Unfortunately it's on
it's way out. (Of course it will still be useful for several years)

If I were to choose to learn a new language today, it would be C#.
(Now if you ever intend to go cross-platform, learn C++)

Frodo

RS3RS · 09-17-2004, 04:33 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. I've decided on C++. I traded a guy a gmail invite on gmailswap.com for the "Learn C++ in 21 days" e-book, plus I've found some pretty good websites for it, so I think I'm going to just dive in to C++. I figure, if nothing else, maybe it will help me out in the future during computer science classes in college

Now, time to try my hand at "Hello, world!"

xBrady · 09-17-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by akw

Java is only good for basic programs? That's interesting, but unfortunately incorrect. As far as coding a GUI, Java isn't quite as capable as some of the others. But when it comes to coding enterprise web applications, Java is king. Also, take a look at the number of open source (GPL, LGPL, Apache License, etc) that are available to the Java programmer today. It's absolutely astounding. Some of the best software available is written in Java and it's completely free (as in beer). I personally work on a distributed Java product that is over 90,000 lines of code and supports tens of thousands of users. I wouldn't consider that "basic".

Oh. And by the way. Java does its own garbage collection too. ;-) I have to agree with some of the other members though. Java isn't a good choice for a car computer UI.

Alright maybe I phrased that the wrong way. What I meant was that Java isn't as efficient with large applications. I realize that it you can do just about anything with it (also very nice because of portability), but when it comes to large scale applications it just isn't as efficient as C++. Yes indeed, Java does its own garbage collection.

stric · 09-17-2004, 08:18 AM

Hi, I have some knowledge in Pascal. I know it not very useful, but what do you think about Delphi? Is it worth to study it?

god_of_cpu · 09-17-2004, 08:41 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by stric

Hi, I have some knowledge in Pascal. I know it not very useful, but what do you think about Delphi? Is it worth to study it?

Even though you know pascal, it would probably be just as easy for you to pick up a better supported language / library like c++ and MFC. Delphi as a language is good and once you learn its just as capable as anything else, however, the delphi development enviornment can't touch visual studio .Net in terms of usability and you will find alot more people using c++ or even VB or C# and therefore alot more resources for help with problems and code examples and libraries for many more things.

0l33l · 09-17-2004, 09:53 AM

Please go with Dlephi. It is about as simple as VB, and it makes aster apps because it compiles into machine code. That's what I use and I love it. It is based on Pascal.

akw · 09-17-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by brady

Alright maybe I phrased that the wrong way. What I meant was that Java isn't as efficient with large applications. I realize that it you can do just about anything with it (also very nice because of portability), but when it comes to large scale applications it just isn't as efficient as C++. Yes indeed, Java does its own garbage collection.

=) Well. I'm not sure I agree, but whatever. In my experience, many things are difficult to implement in Java (try enumerating the PCI devices installed in a computer). But Java's capacity to handle large, complex systems with efficiency is excellent. Recent developments with the Hotspot JVM means that Java code can often achieve runtime speeds close to C++ or other natively compiled languages. Eitherway, I wouldn't bother trying to implement a car PC in java. It just doesn't make any sense.

frodobaggins · 09-17-2004, 01:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 0l33l

Please go with Dlephi. It is about as simple as VB, and it makes aster apps because it compiles into machine code. That's what I use and I love it. It is based on Pascal.

Don't start that. VB is compiled into machine code as well

Jeep · 09-17-2004, 03:01 PM

go for .NET (VB.NET or C# is up to you), VB.NET is litle easyer to start with. Note that .NET is a "modern" langue and very powerful. Here is a great resurce with code examples: http://www.codeproject.com/

mushin · 09-17-2004, 05:20 PM

Isn't .NET more of an architecture? The language(s) are, like you said, C# and VB.NET. You can also do .NET with managed C++. There's some very nice things about .NET, but my main problem with it is that it's compleatly unportable. Though maybe Mono will change that some. One of the nice things about C/C++ is that there are compilers for freakin' everything.

0l33l · 09-17-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by frodobaggins

Don't start that. VB is compiled into machine code as well

Yeh, I one programmed in VB. I never declared any of my variables (bad work ethic) and the programs ran slow!

Jeep · 09-18-2004, 01:18 PM

I have seen linux compiler for .NET, can't remember the url rigth now.

mushin · 09-19-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeep

I have seen linux compiler for .NET, can't remember the url rigth now.

You're probably thinking of Mono.

edscholl · 09-21-2004, 06:54 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by akw

=) Well. I'm not sure I agree, but whatever. In my experience, many things are difficult to implement in Java (try enumerating the PCI devices installed in a computer). But Java's capacity to handle large, complex systems with efficiency is excellent. Recent developments with the Hotspot JVM means that Java code can often achieve runtime speeds close to C++ or other natively compiled languages. Eitherway, I wouldn't bother trying to implement a car PC in java. It just doesn't make any sense.

java is excellent for just about everything other than talking directly to hardware (i.e. your example of talking to the pci bus- but even that's w/ a caveat- it's excellent for talking to serial devices, etc), and you end up using a native interface for that, so i wouldn't say it's any harder or easier than other languages; the interface is easy to implement, and the actual talking to hardware is as simple or as hard as the other language you're using.

anyways, i'm not sure that java is a particularly bad choice for a carpc. i've been beating around the idea of starting a program in carpc project in java for the following reasons:
1- the excellent java-quicktime interface (http://developer.apple.com/quicktime/qtjava/) allows you to easily integrate quicktime functionality into your program; this allows you to easily implement audio and video with one set of api's. also allows support of a wide range of formats.
2- it's pretty easy to talk to the serial and usb ports, so interfacing directly with external hardware is pretty easy (i.e. fm receivers, etc).
3- it's easy to interface w/ other languages if necessary
4- perhaps the most important, if i do start on this, the source will be available freely, and it's very easy to write maintanable code in java.

akw · 10-15-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by edscholl

java is excellent for just about everything other than talking directly to hardware (i.e. your example of talking to the pci bus- but even that's w/ a caveat- it's excellent for talking to serial devices, etc), and you end up using a native interface for that, so i wouldn't say it's any harder or easier than other languages; the interface is easy to implement, and the actual talking to hardware is as simple or as hard as the other language you're using.

anyways, i'm not sure that java is a particularly bad choice for a carpc. i've been beating around the idea of starting a program in carpc project in java for the following reasons:
1- the excellent java-quicktime interface (http://developer.apple.com/quicktime/qtjava/) allows you to easily integrate quicktime functionality into your program; this allows you to easily implement audio and video with one set of api's. also allows support of a wide range of formats.
2- it's pretty easy to talk to the serial and usb ports, so interfacing directly with external hardware is pretty easy (i.e. fm receivers, etc).
3- it's easy to interface w/ other languages if necessary
4- perhaps the most important, if i do start on this, the source will be available freely, and it's very easy to write maintanable code in java.

I've thought seriously about using Java as well. The problem is that there a good number of GPS mapping components for use in Microsoft's world that just aren't available for Java. And while there many more open-sourced projects that are written in Java, I just can't get past the GPS part.

Have you found any vector-based GPS components that are freely available to Java developers?