Bug Tracking (sorry long but please read)

liquid_smoke · 11-28-2004, 10:56 PM

I mostly am posting this directed at the FrodoPlayer forum and user, but everyone here making and using a frontend can benifit so im posting here.

There needs to be a more organized way of fileing, tracking and fixing bugs in all of the frontends. With just a little bit of work from everyone posting bugs it can make things a lot easier for those fixing bugs.

First of all let me give a little background for those who may think im talking out the side of my ***.

I work at Day1studios, we make videogames for MS XBOX, we are a first party independant developer. We created MechAssault http://www.xbox.com/en-us/mechassault and MechAssault2 Lone Wolf http://www.xbox.com/en-us/mechassault2/ shipping Dec 28, make sure you go pick up a copy and meet me on Live for some *** kicking

I am a 3D artist in chicago. Having a very close relationship with MS we get to use MS bug tracking software. The software im about to go into isnt actually being used for bug tracking anymore, my company and MSG studios (fasa) are the last to use it. Its being replaced by something else im not sure what yet. But anyway, we use MS Raid for bug tracking, its a very good program for tracking bugs. I think if we use a similar format to track and submit bugs here it will help things out a lot for everyone to create more stable software and more organized bug tracking.

I dont think i can go into exactly how raid works in detail, without getting in trouble, but i can go into detail on how i think we should track bugs here based on my experience in a production evnironment under VERY tight deadlines using this bug tracking method.

First There should be a subforum for Bugs, not one thread with tons of post, some bugs , some not bugs, some just people saying this happens to me too etc. Its a mess, and when you do find a bug, searching in that one thread to see if anyone has posted it already is a huge pain in the *** and leads to people either not posting the bug and hoping someone else will or posting the bug and being told its allready a know issue go search.

Each thread in the bug forum should have the title of the bug as the subject so its easy to search bugs and track them. The subject should not just be formatted any ole kind of way either. An example would be, lets say you find a bug in FP that when you go to the DVD menu FP crashes. The subject for the thread should be.
CRASH_DVD_ FP crashed when i go to the DVD menu_ (ACTIVE)
crash and DVD are used to track all issues with the DVD menu or any Crashers. If you do a search for CRASH in the bug forum it will list all bug threads that have crashes associated with them, etc. (Active) is the status of the bug.
Active= bug is active and not fixed
Resolved= bug is resolved and resolution is inside the bug, this is where the person fixing the bug states what hes going to do or has done about it.
Closed= this bug is closed, read the resolution and deal with it or rejoice
Still following me

Now to the contents of the bug thread, just as important as the title.

the bug title should be listed again as the first line in the thread.
Followed by repro steps of exactly what you did to cause the bug
Then followed by what you expect to happen in this situation instead of the crash
So an example would look like this:
************
CRASH_DVD_ FP crashed when i go to the DVD menu

<Repro Steps>
1)load FP
2)Click menu button, then click DVD button
FP crashes when the dvd button is clicked

<expected>
FP to not crash when clicking dvd button and play movie

<notes>
Im using FrodoPlayer version 1.09take3patch 1
skin LS skin http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...35&postcount=3
(plus any other related info that could be the cause of the crash, like what OS, DVD codec your using etc. would go here)

********************
above is sample bug, fp does not crash on me

simple no, not too complicated just a few rules to follow to make it easier for everyone in the long run. This thread should not be replied to by anyone other than Frodo and or people he has given permission to reply to bug threads. These people are the testing team. Volunteers who will maintain the bug thread .

So what does this do for us, and why should we stop doing what we've been doing already.

For one it makes it easier for those developing front ends to track and fix bugs associated with there software without having to sort through a thread that is 13 pages long, 182 post and maybe only have of them actual bugs.
The easier it is for the developer to fix things , the quicker it is for the end user to get these fixes and enjoy more stable software.
Free software, so we kind of owe it to Frodo and others to help them as much as we can.
Win Win

please comment.

zorro · 11-29-2004, 03:24 AM

Great idea... but I doubt this will work here. This sure is the way how professionals handle this problem ... but I don't see many of them here

MoFo · 11-29-2004, 03:40 AM

i like the idea myself. one thread per bug would help so much because of the descriptive and specific title.
but of course ol' Zorro wouldnt like that. He likes to lump every post into an existing 15+ page thread

So searching is a little useless cause you will still have to read all 40 pages of the thread to find what your searching for. You better start the coffee pot and grab your reading glasses..

I'm just giving Zorro a hard time..I love him

gospeed.racer · 11-29-2004, 03:44 AM

I agree as well. I think it would benifit everyone.

zorro · 11-29-2004, 03:49 AM

If everyone posting would be a bit more disciplined and post exactely the information needed (not like: "My phone's not working. Why?") and do a search before posting, there wouldn't be 15+ pages threads

MoFo · 11-29-2004, 03:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by zorro

If everyone posting would be a bit more disciplined and post exactely the information needed (not like: "My phone's not working. Why?") and do a search before posting, there wouldn't be 15+ pages threads

yeah thats true...but those vague and unclear threads and questions would be spotted and easily deleted until the poster learns how to properly form a good question

0l33l · 11-29-2004, 03:56 AM

The more questions the higher post count I get

Matthew230 · 11-29-2004, 04:01 AM

Doesn't matter how you set it up, comes down to GIGO

Bravellir · 11-29-2004, 04:23 AM

I wonder why there isn´t some kind of add-on for foruns just to achieve this?

Some kind of bug tracking and documentation builder add-on would be of incredible use to the frontend subforuns.

frodobaggins · 11-29-2004, 04:37 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by 0l33l

The more questions the higher post count I get

Time to reset you.

liquid_smoke · 11-29-2004, 04:50 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Matthew230

Doesn't matter how you set it up, comes down to GIGO

what is GIGO?

anyway, i think this can be done here and work. We we first started using bug tracking software at work, everyone hated it even though we all knew it would lead to the game haveing less bugs and just a way better way to handle things. So we did it and in time we all grew to love and hate it, but we all agree its the best way to go. Same thing here. We dont need everyone on this board to agree with this, just higher ups who control the board and willing to grant mod status to those few willing to oversea the bug threads. Since i opened my big mouth, i'll be the first to say let me have mod status in the FrodoPlayer bug subforum. Frodo if your listening (i know you are) you can PM me anytime

frodobaggins · 11-29-2004, 04:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by liquid_smoke

Since i opened my big mouth, i'll be the first to say let me have mod status in the FrodoPlayer bug subforum. Frodo if your listening (i know you are) you can PM me anytime

You're hired. I'll see what I can do.