Windows Vista - Page 6

RoyN · 08-04-2005, 06:17 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but a few months after Vista is out, if it doesnt turn into a screwup everyone here saying "I'm going back to windows 2000 or windows 98 bah bah bah" will just swallow their pride and go to the more modern, more stable, faster, more supported new OS...

Nobody is going to be running a 5yr old OS afer Vista is released if it works well....(as a daily workstation, not necessarily carpc)

turbochris · 08-04-2005, 10:23 PM

more modern? yes. More stable? maybe. better performing? I doubt it. Billybob Gates isn't concerned about what we want, he's more concerned about how he and his business partners can make money off of consumers with a minimal amount of problems. First he'll make it pretty with all kinds of whistes and bells to hook the consumers, then he'll put in digital rights management and tell us he's just interested in our security, but the truth is he'll lock it up so we won't be able to run freeware anymore since no ne is making money off of it. Ultimately some day we'll all be paying a monthly bill to MS just like the phone company and electric company.

I gave XP a long hard look and I gave it more than a fair chance. I asked myself what it really gave me that 2K couldn't give me and it wasn't much. After the release of XP SP2 and after trying 2003 server I realized where MS was going and while the average computer illterate consumer may benefit from this childproof bloatware, I found it pretty much usless.

Quote:

Nobody is going to be running a 5yr old OS afer Vista is released if it works well

This may be true as we may have no choice.

RoyN · 08-04-2005, 10:26 PM

if its problems outweigh its benefits it will flunk.... (like winMe)

rushnrockt · 08-04-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbochris

This may be true as we may have no choice.

What do you mean no choice? You can still use your win2k.
As far as childproof bloatware, I'll agree only on half of that statement. As far as I noticed, regular users need to install 2-3 different programs or 1-2 pieces of hardware before they mess something up. I wish there was something like windows CE instead of Vista. Might not be totally foolproof, but at least takes less space.

stevieg · 08-05-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbochris

more modern? yes. More stable? maybe. better performing? I doubt it. Billybob Gates isn't concerned about what we want, he's more concerned about how he and his business partners can make money off of consumers with a minimal amount of problems. First he'll make it pretty with all kinds of whistes and bells to hook the consumers, then he'll put in digital rights management and tell us he's just interested in our security, but the truth is he'll lock it up so we won't be able to run freeware anymore since no ne is making money off of it. Ultimately some day we'll all be paying a monthly bill to MS just like the phone company and electric company.

I gave XP a long hard look and I gave it more than a fair chance. I asked myself what it really gave me that 2K couldn't give me and it wasn't much. After the release of XP SP2 and after trying 2003 server I realized where MS was going and while the average computer illterate consumer may benefit from this childproof bloatware, I found it pretty much usless.

This may be true as we may have no choice.

As someone who runs a lot of expensive server equipment for a living, I can vouch Windows 2003 server is a fair bit faster and much more reliable than 2000 on the same high-end hardware. Yes I am still running some 2000 servers and even still have to do new installs for legacy applications that aren't supported by the manufacturer on 2003 but generally it's a no-brainer. It's a *much* better operating system, especially when running enterprise applications and clusters.

If Server 2003 post SP1 is anything to go by (I believe it's the code base for Vista) then Vista is going to be a worthwhile upgrade for those with high-end hardware and graphics cards.

The other point of leaving 2000 is it's now unsupported by Microsoft - not surprising seeing as it's over 5 years old now. Luckily they are still providing critical security patches - but I certainly wouldn't like to do a fresh install and apply everything post SP4!

If you like it fair enough, but if you hate Microsoft software so much (or their ideology) on your home systems maybe you ought to try Mac OS X, FreeBSD or a Linux distribution.

turbochris · 08-05-2005, 04:09 PM

I tried using 2003 as a workstation, maybe it's good for a server but as a workstation it didn't perform as well as XP and 2K. I know, it wasn't meant for a workstation, I was just exploring my options.

I don't hate MS, I just don't like the direction they're going in. Maybe a few years after Vista is out they'll be something like nLite for it and we'll be able to trim it down to a high performance system. I'm tired of all the phone home bloatware and frustrating security crap they build in to keep the average consumer from hurting himself.

Those other OS's you mentioned, using them is like having the most high performance car in the world, but you can only use it on 10% of the existing roads. Not a practical solution.

techeros · 08-05-2005, 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbochris

I tried using 2003 as a workstation, maybe it's good for a server but as a workstation it didn't perform as well as XP and 2K. I know, it wasn't meant for a workstation, I was just exploring my options.

I don't hate MS, I just don't like the direction they're going in. Maybe a few years after Vista is out they'll be something like nLite for it and we'll be able to trim it down to a high performance system. I'm tired of all the phone home bloatware and frustrating security crap they build in to keep the average consumer from hurting himself.

Those other OS's you mentioned, using them is like having the most high performance car in the world, but you can only use it on 10% of the existing roads. Not a practical solution.

What direction are they going in that you don't like?
I find that I can trim down the extra junk to stop from hurting yourself, I can even make it look and behave as if it were Win2k but with Xp's backbone. (more security).
Granted, they are appealing to the masses becasue that is where the market is, not for us guru's. If they were appealing to us, it would look alot like Linux, command prompts and less frilly GUI stuff. Granted, an admin GUI would be nice.

After looking at Vista, (which I understand is built on XP) there are some differences for sure. Look at it like this. It is job security for you and me. The GUI is a little different.

turbochris · 08-05-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

What direction are they going in that you don't like

I fear they're going to squash freeware and the ability to trim the OS as you mentioned, all in the name of security. I'm a little concerned about the direction DRM is going in also. They see security as securing their profits. If someone writes a great freeware program, that could hurt MS or one of MS's partners that sell an equivalent program. Why wouldn't MS just close up their OS to make it so no one but their liscensed partners will be able to make software that will run on Windows? Do you think they aren't considering this? Soon security concerns will have our OS residing on MS's servers and we'll have to rent time for access. It will be just like WebTV!

techeros · 08-05-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbochris

I fear they're going to squash freeware and the ability to trim the OS as you mentioned, all in the name of security. I'm a little concerned about the direction DRM is going in also. They see security as securing their profits. If someone writes a great freeware program, that could hurt MS or one of MS's partners that sell an equivalent program. Why wouldn't MS just close up their OS to make it so no one but their liscensed partners will be able to make software that will run on Windows? Do you think they aren't considering this? Soon security concerns will have our OS residing on MS's servers and we'll have to rent time for access. It will be just like WebTV!

Well thats the big thing now MS AntiTrust ... at least I'm pretty sure that pertains to what your talking about. I doubt seriously that will happen. M$ will be shooting themselves in the foot if they do, IMHO. It will shut down the road for other (non-MS Partner) companies to make usefull products to run on popular OS's like XP and soon to be Vista.

I am not discounting what you are saying, and yes I feel if M$ had the opportunity to lock down the market like you are suggesting, then the US gov would have failed us.

As a lan admin, I would stear claer of something that would become so propritary. That would be like me buying a brother server and brother os to run brother word and brother networking tools. We can run whatever os we want and 3rd party programs.

I think opensource code is the window for new opportunity, new software, and possibilities, companies etc etc...

turbochris · 08-05-2005, 05:48 PM

I understand what you're saying, but I'm a little concerned about how some of this MS "Trusted Platform" Paladium crap may be embedded in the hardware.

Rafster · 08-05-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by RoyN

I've heard all this "by the time X windows is out I'll be running linux x flavor" but in the end we are all bill gates' whores.... sorry but true

The people that actually pay for the software might be....

Peace,

Rafster

0l33l · 08-06-2005, 03:19 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by stevieg

The other point of leaving 2000 is it's now unsupported by Microsoft - not surprising seeing as it's over 5 years old now. Luckily they are still providing critical security patches - but I certainly wouldn't like to do a fresh install and apply everything post SP4!

I always install windows 2000 on the computers at the place I volunteer at. Those computers would not run well with windows XP. Plus its better to have the whole network running on win2k IMO

markland556 · 08-06-2005, 03:35 AM

all i have to say about this is that i will be handing out free kicks in the balls for anyone that is dumb enough to buy this......

techeros · 08-06-2005, 02:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbochris

I understand what you're saying, but I'm a little concerned about how some of this MS "Trusted Platform" Paladium crap may be embedded in the hardware.

You think Dell or any other major corporation that had a wrather large market share would let that happen? What about the Linux community and the corporations that run Linux flavors? not gunna happen. If I am wrong, I'll admit it.