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08-06-2005, 02:59 PM
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#91
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Confusion Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: If you go down to the woods today, You're sure of
Posts: 11,938
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Quote: Originally Posted by techeros
Would you have said the same about the OS your running now?
What makes you think he bought it?
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08-06-2005, 05:07 PM
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#92
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 222
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Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer
What makes you think he bought it?
I never said he bought it
__________________
03' Toyota Tundra T3 Special Edition - Polk Audio speakers - Sony 4ch amp - RF Sub amp
Carputer Planning |---------*|
Overall Implementation |---------*-|
(Stereo complete)
Computer installed and working
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08-06-2005, 06:26 PM
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#93
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Confusion Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: If you go down to the woods today, You're sure of
Posts: 11,938
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Quote: Originally Posted by techeros
I never said he bought it
So you insinuating he's using a non legal copy then?
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08-06-2005, 07:36 PM
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#94
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 222
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Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer
So you insinuating he's using a non legal copy then?
nope thats not my point...
__________________
03' Toyota Tundra T3 Special Edition - Polk Audio speakers - Sony 4ch amp - RF Sub amp
Carputer Planning |---------*|
Overall Implementation |---------*-|
(Stereo complete)
Computer installed and working
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08-06-2005, 07:44 PM
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#95
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The Lavender Tie Just
Made It Obvious
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bonita, CA (Hop, Skip, and a Jump from Tijuana, Mexico)
Posts: 3,077
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Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer
So you insinuating he's using a non legal copy then?
Aren't most of us? 
Peace,
Rafster
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08-07-2005, 01:26 AM
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#96
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 219
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lol, well all im trying to say is that the whole point of Vista was the Win FS filing system, and now that they ditched the projects, whats the point......
__________________
86' Mercedes 300E
Status..::... {######----}65%~~ paused
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08-07-2005, 02:11 AM
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#97
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 222
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Quote: Originally Posted by markland556
lol, well all im trying to say is that the whole point of Vista was the Win FS filing system, and now that they ditched the projects, whats the point......
well the version I have seen so far does have a Mac OS X feel to it. I thought I read somewhere that when you hover over the folder, one would see the files and sub-folders....well that didn't happen like I expected. It was Mac OS X !!
Also, YOU STILL HAVE TO R CLICK, properties to get the freggin size of a folder !!!! ERGH!!!
OVERALL, Vista beta looks like XP with a cool dark black/grey skin and OS X file system layout.
Granted it does have some cool new options like voice recognition, I'm not impressed. Realizing this is just a beta, I will give the MS folks time to finish up.
__________________
03' Toyota Tundra T3 Special Edition - Polk Audio speakers - Sony 4ch amp - RF Sub amp
Carputer Planning |---------*|
Overall Implementation |---------*-|
(Stereo complete)
Computer installed and working
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08-08-2005, 04:53 AM
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#98
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See me in my wet t-shirt.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 1,887
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OK well I installed it on my home laptop at the weekend.. and oh dear oh dear oh dear is all I can say.
I've been using it at work in VMWare Workstation 5 - on a host machine built for VMWare (we use GSX and ESX a lot where I am) - so a dual processor 3.2 Ghz Xeon box with 2GB of fast ram and 2 x 80GB SATA drives running raid 0 and decent graphics card - so Vista ran *really* well in a virtual machine.
Took it home and installed it on my 2.8Ghz Celeron Laptop, 512MB Ram, average-2.5"-speed HDD, Radeon DX8 compatible gx and holy crap. Slow as mud.
I ended up disabling the usual stuff as per XP - except this time round there is even more pointless stuff - a base installation was using 328MB RAM - quite considerable verses my stripped-out Car PC install that uses 48MB RAM!!! and even after disabling a load of stuff (including all the XP-like GUI effects) it was still hogging the CPU, and working very slowly.
One of the biggest problems seems to be this MS Search thing that's built into it. Now most of us don't need to 'rate' our files, and give them numbers of stars and attach keywords to them, yet Vista almost insists on them. And this MS Search (which is probably just the Indexing Service, and yes you can disable the service) is almost always in use - using 5%, 10% whil doing nothing - and even at the least likely times when you would use MS Search, such as when adding device drivers and such - it springs into action using 80% of the CPU while you're at the familiar NT device driver 'Have Disk' button.
My opinion so far?
If you buy a PC capable that will be a 'good spec' for Vista in a years time, then fair enough.
But this time round I would prefer it if they had a 'performance mode' that you can reboot into for doing anything you need CPU for, and a 'fancy mode' if you want to play around with all the new ****e.
By the way - I don't think it's slow at home because I didn't have the right graphics driver or something installed - It's generally about 20% slower than XP whatever it's doing. Even DELETING A FILE it has to go round the houses and pop up a window showing what it's doing.. How far it's got along working out what to delete, how far it's got along deleting... I mean that's so much wasted CPU just to change where the file thinks it is until it's deleted. ARRRGH!
I don't think I'll be able to live with it long enough at home to play with voice recognition!
__________________
Ford Focus MP3 : www.stevieg.org/carpc Blog Updated 29 January 2009!
Car PC Status: Complete - Undergoing Software Redevelopment
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08-08-2005, 05:07 AM
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#99
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Confusion Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: If you go down to the woods today, You're sure of
Posts: 11,938
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At least you got it to load.
I tried about 3 machines and the install crashed out on all, all at different stages. 
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08-08-2005, 05:29 AM
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#100
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See me in my wet t-shirt.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 1,887
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Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer
At least you got it to load.
I tried about 3 machines and the install crashed out on all, all at different stages.
Try on VMWare workstation 5, there is a trial version available.
Basically install process on Vmware is, mount the ISO, boot and format the disk in Vista's setup. Then reboot, press esc for boot menu and boot from CD again. Install should proceeed as normal.
When into windows, install VMWare tools. Graphics + mouse now work. For LAN, go into Vista device manager, find the network card, and install the driver, using the CD (vmware tools CD) as the location to search. For sound, go to the Creative website, and download the PCI 128 drivers (here http://files.americas.creative.com/m...etupus_w2k.exe)
I did actually try it on 'Virtual PC' from Microsoft thinking their support might be better. VMWare actually has experimental Longhorn support - MS's Virtual PC has NO SUPPORT!
__________________
Ford Focus MP3 : www.stevieg.org/carpc Blog Updated 29 January 2009!
Car PC Status: Complete - Undergoing Software Redevelopment
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08-08-2005, 06:14 AM
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#101
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Confusion Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: If you go down to the woods today, You're sure of
Posts: 11,938
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Not sure I'm that desperate to try a new OS that can't install on my existing PC's.
If I get some time, may look into the VMware idea, but as a beta test I guess it's failed 
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08-08-2005, 06:59 AM
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#102
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See me in my wet t-shirt.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 1,887
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Quote: Originally Posted by Enforcer
Not sure I'm that desperate to try a new OS that can't install on my existing PC's.
If I get some time, may look into the VMware idea, but as a beta test I guess it's failed
Did you report your problems to Microsoft? It's only failed when they say 'Oh your PC is the problem' even though every other OS works on it! Which they might... 
__________________
Ford Focus MP3 : www.stevieg.org/carpc Blog Updated 29 January 2009!
Car PC Status: Complete - Undergoing Software Redevelopment
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08-08-2005, 10:54 AM
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#103
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 222
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StevieG,
We installed it on a laptop we normally checkout to our users. hehe Man it took like 1.5 hours to install. We could not get network support for integrated nic in the Dell laptop. Get this.. the laptop... hehe well it is a 1.4 with 256 !!! IT RAN VISTA!!!
Can you believe that?
Yeah, it sounded ike the HDD was churnin the ENTIRE TIME.
You brought up a VERY GOOD POINT, one that I think I mentioned as well in my review...
Vista modes...
It would be VERY VERY nice to have an admin mode with less GUI crap normally for the computer impaired, kinda like a Win2000 view, stripped down gui mode with intuitive options to enable or disable services easly and perhaps customize the GUI so it's not so intensive on the hardware.
__________________
03' Toyota Tundra T3 Special Edition - Polk Audio speakers - Sony 4ch amp - RF Sub amp
Carputer Planning |---------*|
Overall Implementation |---------*-|
(Stereo complete)
Computer installed and working
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08-08-2005, 04:28 PM
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#104
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See me in my wet t-shirt.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 1,887
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Quote: Originally Posted by techeros
StevieG,
We installed it on a laptop we normally checkout to our users. hehe Man it took like 1.5 hours to install. We could not get network support for integrated nic in the Dell laptop. Get this.. the laptop... hehe well it is a 1.4 with 256 !!! IT RAN VISTA!!!
Can you believe that?
Yeah, it sounded ike the HDD was churnin the ENTIRE TIME.
You brought up a VERY GOOD POINT, one that I think I mentioned as well in my review...
Vista modes...
It would be VERY VERY nice to have an admin mode with less GUI crap normally for the computer impaired, kinda like a Win2000 view, stripped down gui mode with intuitive options to enable or disable services easly and perhaps customize the GUI so it's not so intensive on the hardware.
Yes maybe we ought to propose this on the beta newsgroups!!! In the end I reformatted my home laptop with a nLite install - I can't believe how slow it is on 'old' hardware - I did another Vista install this morning on my VMWare machine and it was about 20 minutes for the full install, fast compared to (this) machine but bear in mind the nLite'd install CD installed in between 5-10 minutes or less.
To be honest most of the world won't care if new machines in a year are 'bogged down' by Vista as they'll probably work quite well with it - bigger concerns for me are what the indexing service will hold and how it's stored, what uses it might have in the enterprise through a central search service based on SQL Server and of course the deployment facilities that I can train the desktop team in and how I can make their lives easier..
Car-PC-wise, I'm starting to think if we want 'current' OS' on the Mini-ITX platform then it's going to have to be a slow move from the community towards Linux.
Maybe one day some clever researcher will work out how much £/$ a year the world spends just to run Microsoft's extra features - IE running all the extra pointless services and other crap uses CPU, which uses more watts from the PSU, which in turn.... Costs more money in power! Not much for one person, but imagine how much it costs EVERYONE!!!
Seriously though it is such a pity all the extra crap is on by default. OK fair enough with IIS and stuff - they say they haven't finished the parts of the installer for choosing optional components - but definately by default none of the crap (PenService.exe anyone? Didn't/Doesn't that have a massive memory leak on XP) needs to be there.
__________________
Ford Focus MP3 : www.stevieg.org/carpc Blog Updated 29 January 2009!
Car PC Status: Complete - Undergoing Software Redevelopment
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08-08-2005, 05:25 PM
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#105
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Constant Bitrate
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 222
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Quote: Originally Posted by stevieg
Seriously though it is such a pity all the extra crap is on by default. OK fair enough with IIS and stuff - they say they haven't finished the parts of the installer for choosing optional components - but definately by default none of the crap (PenService.exe anyone? Didn't/Doesn't that have a massive memory leak on XP) needs to be there.
Yeah I gree with what you have said especially this last part. I think they (M$) is covering their tails. As soon as some dumTard tries do do something they have NO CLUE about, and it doesn't work on the first try, they are going to blams M$ right off the bat. So they have to enable everything so things run smoothly. You think they (the user) is going to have the patience to lookup what a service is, what it does and how to enable it? DOUBT IT. Muchless on install. M$ will have to dumb it down a good bit. For example:
Welcome to Windows Vista install ! Please select your install package
I am a dumbass user (installs all services and full GUI)
I am a user who knows how to konnect to the InterWorld (hehe) (still installs everything)
I am a lan admin (especially installs windows update with no other option than always on)
I write code (stripped down mode hardly anything works whats new?)
I hack windows, so don't even try( windows right out of the box before the 30 BA-Jillion updates)
Am I right or what?
__________________
03' Toyota Tundra T3 Special Edition - Polk Audio speakers - Sony 4ch amp - RF Sub amp
Carputer Planning |---------*|
Overall Implementation |---------*-|
(Stereo complete)
Computer installed and working
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