Streetdeck bashing

StaggRLee · 03-21-2007, 12:30 PM

A lot of people are coming on here and brutalizing the developers and SD staff about things unrelated to SD itself. I think it's unfair and jeopardizes the availibility of an unbundled version of SD.

Streetdeck is still a work in progress and any people who actively monitor this forum and have bought anyway know that. And the SD people are very upfront about that. IMHO it's a great program and only continues to get better.

What bothers me is people who come on here and bash SD for integration problems. If you've decided to build your system around a pick-list of ad-hoc hardware; you assume certain risks and responsibilities for problems that arise from that.

There are people/enthusiasts/SD staff here willing to help with those problems, but recognise that it is not the preferred experience that the SD staff want to provide. So please don't abuse them for that.

If you want the full boat, you have to pay for the full boat. If you choose to go your own route WRT to hardware, realize that you're re-engineering the boat. In which case give them a break about issues that are out of their control, and let them concentrate on improving the program instead of defending the program when the underlying hardware/driver/integration problems are the real issue.

If people keep this up, the logical result is that the SD staff are going to come to the conclusion that supporting an unbundled version is not worth the time and trouble it requires.

I think that SD has tried to strike a balance between a stable, full-featured program and supporting the enthusiast/customizer base. What other front end has an integrated SDK? I think a little patience and compassion for the developer/sales/support staff is in order. [/lecture]

jAyRoCkS24r · 03-21-2007, 01:30 PM

wah wah wah

StaggRLee · 03-21-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jAyRoCkS24r

wah wah wah

Rah Rah Rah! Call me a cheerleader. Not a whiner who can't put a system together.

david69leonard · 03-21-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by StaggRLee

Streetdeck is still a work in progress and any people who actively monitor this forum and have bought anyway know that. And the SD people are very upfront about that. IMHO it's a great program and only continues to get better.

[/lecture]

If Streetdeck is still a work in progress, why charge $200 for a program that is unfinished?

StaggRLee · 03-21-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by david69leonard

If Streetdeck is still a work in progress, why charge $200 for a program that is unfinished?

Every piece of software is a work in progress. You stick a stake in the ground and declare a release version. You have to or it's all just navel-gazing after all. Revenue=ongoing development.

Dirty-little-secret-revelation: Software gets released with known bugs. Software gets released with feature stub-outs that didn't make the cut.
That's why God invented 2.0.

strohj · 03-21-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by david69leonard

If Streetdeck is still a work in progress, why charge $200 for a program that is unfinished?

you are implying that microsoft office was perfect and complete 10 years ago.. cos they sold it as a finished complete product.. even though there were many bugs and updates to it since then.

Streetdeck works as it is right now... sure there are bugs and missing features... but the Dev team is working on them and that really is all I can ask for

david69leonard · 03-21-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by StaggRLee

Every piece of software is a work in progress. You stick a stake in the ground and declare a release version. You have to or it's all just navel-gazing after all. Revenue=ongoing development.

Dirty-little-secret-revelation: Software gets released with known bugs. Software gets released with feature stub-outs that didn't make the cut.
That's why God invented 2.0.

That is true, actually i like what i see as far as SD, it has some pretty unique capabilities to it. The only thing thats stopping me from buying it is the $200 price tag... Thats more than the OS im using...

ShawJohn · 03-21-2007, 02:25 PM

Yeh but all you yanks think $2.50 for a gallon of petrol is expensive

If its too expensive, learn how to setup Roadrunner and use that

2k1Toaster · 03-21-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ShawJohn

Yeh but all you yanks think $2.50 for a gallon of petrol is expensive

If its too expensive, learn how to setup Roadrunner and use that

We don't have petrol over here. We have "gas".

I accidentally let "petrol" slip out in speech in the US a few times and only a few know what it is. Some think it is jet fuel!

StaggRLee · 03-21-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by david69leonard

That is true, actually i like what i see as far as SD, it has some pretty unique capabilities to it. The only thing thats stopping me from buying it is the $200 price tag... Thats more than the OS im using...

Fair enough. $200 is a fair bit to spend. But I've spent way more than that on shrink-wrap that didn't live up to expectations.

These guys are scrambling and working God-knows how many hours building a going concern. They're in a crunch right now and the last thing I think they need is a negative user base. This is a great program. Even if you think it isn't; it will be.

Credit where credit's due. I'm just saying let these guys focus.

2k1Toaster · 03-21-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by StaggRLee

Credit where credit's due. I'm just saying let these guys focus.

Something tells me that "Streetdeck Bashing" will attract their attention and delay them more! Maybe it should be "Stop the SD Bashing"...

jAyRoCkS24r · 03-21-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by StaggRLee

Rah Rah Rah! Call me a cheerleader. Not a whiner who can't put a system together.

Relax...its a forum....people whine..people complain...people critize...people make suggestions....its how forums work.

Bugbyte · 03-21-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by StaggRLee

If you want the full boat, you have to pay for the full boat. If you choose to go your own route WRT to hardware, realize that you're re-engineering the boat. In which case give them a break about issues that are out of their control, and let them concentrate on improving the program instead of defending the program when the underlying hardware/driver/integration problems are the real issue.

Most of the people who bash SD are hobbyists who are used to solving technically complex software and hardware problems that arise from the use of free or cheap software.

What they aren't used to doing is solving technically complex software and hardware problems related to software they paid a lot of money for.

I think that is the main hue and cry that you hear from hobbyists and I don't really think it is particularly helpful to answer the criticism by saying, "you get what you paid for. If you wanted it to work, you should have bought the whole package".

If that is indeed the prevailing view then perhaps it is a mistake to offer an unbundled software package. In fact, it makes little business sense to waste the time and resources to address non-SD hardware or software issues.

Beta means it works, mostly. Maybe some features are missing. A $200 beta means it either works mostly or it will in the very near future. While some people are simply idiots and are going to bash the SD product because it has some kind of price tag on it or they think the mp3car association is being abused by connecting it to the SD product. I'm not one of those. You want to make a buck, make a buck. If you can find people willing to buy it, sell it to them. That's what makes the world go around.

However, I don't consider it unreasonable for purchasers of the software product to expect it to work properly or to have certain issues addressed in due course. Software may be one of the only products you can sell where you're allowed a 'do over' because you made a mistake up front or didn't finish in time. Airlines can't fly you but fail to pressurize the plane, restaurants can't leave the steak out of surf and turf and lawyers can't represent you well on one part of the charge but fail to do so on the other. Sure, they can try to compensate you for the inconveniece but that's a make up for failing to deliver in the first place.

It certainly feels abusive when you hear "oh well, all this stuff has bugs in it, we'll fix it next time around." That's probably the reason that really good software stands out so clearly.

One of the main differences between hobbyists and people who do this stuff for a living is professsionalism, training, and execution. Companies that form to concentrate resources, processes, and production of software hold themselves out to be professionals and I don't think it is unreasonable for their customers to rattle their cage from time to time if they aren't satisfied with the progress. After all, it doesn't really matter how well the company thinks it is doing, it matters how their customers think they are doing.

StaggRLee · 03-21-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bugbyte

Most of the people ...

Bravo. Great post.

And I agree on many fronts. But I think that if SD is to survive and prosper it needs both the bundled and retail versions.

I'm just saying the home-built base needs to be more self-supporting and less critical of SD when it comes to issues not directly related to SD.

david69leonard · 03-21-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bugbyte

Most of the people who bash SD are hobbyists who are used to solving technically complex software and hardware problems that arise from the use of free or cheap software.

What they aren't used to doing is solving technically complex software and hardware problems related to software they paid a lot of money for.

I think that is the main hue and cry that you hear from hobbyists and I don't really think it is particularly helpful to answer the criticism by saying, "you get what you paid for. If you wanted it to work, you should have bought the whole package".

If that is indeed the prevailing view then perhaps it is a mistake to offer an unbundled software package. In fact, it makes little business sense to waste the time and resources to address non-SD hardware or software issues.

Beta means it works, mostly. Maybe some features are missing. A $200 beta means it either works mostly or it will in the very near future. While some people are simply idiots and are going to bash the SD product because it has some kind of price tag on it or they think the mp3car association is being abused by connecting it to the SD product. I'm not one of those. You want to make a buck, make a buck. If you can find people willing to buy it, sell it to them. That's what makes the world go around.

However, I don't consider it unreasonable for purchasers of the software product to expect it to work properly or to have certain issues addressed in due course. Software may be one of the only products you can sell where you're allowed a 'do over' because you made a mistake up front or didn't finish in time. Airlines can't fly you but fail to pressurize the plane, restaurants can't leave the steak out of surf and turf and lawyers can't represent you well on one part of the charge but fail to do so on the other. Sure, they can try to compensate you for the inconveniece but that's a make up for failing to deliver in the first place.

It certainly feels abusive when you hear "oh well, all this stuff has bugs in it, we'll fix it next time around." That's probably the reason that really good software stands out so clearly.

One of the main differences between hobbyists and people who do this stuff for a living is professsionalism, training, and execution. Companies that form to concentrate resources, processes, and production of software hold themselves out to be professionals and I don't think it is unreasonable for their customers to rattle their cage from time to time if they aren't satisfied with the progress. After all, it doesn't really matter how well the company thinks it is doing, it matters how their customers think they are doing.

Now was that a memo or a mission statement, "finally someone said it"..

Anywho, ive been seriously considering purchasing SD, I like what i see, i also like to hear peoples reviews of a product before i purchase it...

Last year i bought G-net Digital Dash from some crazy Canadians for $50 just because i liked the way it looked and how it was supposed to perform, i still use it every now and then, but was it worth $50, i really dont think so...