Bluetooth as an RFID

ShagNasty · 04-07-2005, 06:14 PM

Hello I've been thinking !

All bluetooth enabled gadgets got it's own mac-adress and work within 10 meters. Therefor a car with the prober software should be able to detect a specific user when he's close to the car, simply by scanning after a certain bluetooth mac number (thinking bluetooth enabled phone). Why not make an application/plugin that does exactly that, so when it detects the correct user the car automaticly opens the doors and whatever one more whiches. When the computer detects that the bluetooth unit is gone then it locks the car etc.

I would programme it if I had the skiils but I don't

Saab9-5 · 04-07-2005, 06:33 PM

It may be harder to do or less obvious a security flaw, but the MAC address in a Bluetooth device can be spoofed just like any other NIC, wired or wireless. But an interesting application of Bluetooth nonetheless.

rushnrockt · 04-07-2005, 07:04 PM

Actually Bluetooth is not secure at all, you'd have to do some really creative programming to make it secure, and even then....

ShagNasty · 04-08-2005, 03:37 AM

Yes bluetooth can be hacked, spoofed and so on but consider this "no one" knows that you use bluetooth as an rfid and the "hi-hacker" don't know your mac address. One could also build in an EMP that blows if the car senses an hacking in progress.......

rushnrockt · 04-08-2005, 05:58 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ShagNasty

Yes bluetooth can be hacked, spoofed and so on but consider this "no one" knows that you use bluetooth as an rfid and the "hi-hacker" don't know your mac address. One could also build in an EMP that blows if the car senses an hacking in progress.......

For some reason an EMP in a car full of electronics seems a bit scary of an idea.... Wouldn't want your ABS to forget how to work. Or your engine.

Curiosity · 04-08-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ShagNasty

Yes bluetooth can be hacked, spoofed and so on but consider this "no one" knows that you use bluetooth as an rfid and the "hi-hacker" don't know your mac address.

Exactly. Until bluetooth is used for car alarms, no car thieves are going to be monitoring it as they spot someone walking up to a car and associating that paired re-connect somewhere in the area with the security. They will be too busy with the standard frequencies and codes. Anything unique is going to be better than the best mass market devices because that's the biggest target.

James141 · 04-08-2005, 09:42 AM

Just to note, I have seen some PC software that can do this for your desktop.

You pair your phone whit it and when you walk away it locks your PC then when you come back it detects the phone and unlocks it. Works really well

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Securit...ockItNow.shtml

ShagNasty · 04-08-2005, 06:08 PM

The EMP was just a joke

Your right that the idea being "unique" is it's best protection no one expects that bluetooth is the medium of choise. So if someone wants to steal my car they would proberly know me personaly.

rushnrockt · 04-08-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ShagNasty

The EMP was just a joke

Your right that the idea being "unique" is it's best protection no one expects that bluetooth is the medium of choise. So if someone wants to steal my car they would proberly know me personaly.

I'd like to think so, but seeing how hackers apparently have oodles of time on their hands, its only a matter of time before you park next to some armed geek who is tired of DOSing google. But like I said, you can always get creative with encoding technics.

NICK_1 · 04-08-2005, 08:13 PM

Hi all,

Although this wouldn't improve your system in a big way you could also run a few other tests when deciding if the bluetooth device is your phone (for example) as you said you would check the mac address but you could also refuse to do anything if the device name doesn't match something cryptic. This would give you a huge number of combinations and would be like keeping your password on your phone. (The one problem is if anyone scans for bt devices they also get your code and your mac so don't leave your phone visible to other devices)

Hmm interesting idea though. I wouldn't like to see your carputer get a virus though

Nick

shakes · 04-08-2005, 09:15 PM

ok ... I suppose you're suggesting to use the MAC address as the 'ID' ... but where exactally does Radio Freq come into play?

afterall, you'd need both to even BEGIN to compare the two ... no?

rushnrockt · 04-08-2005, 09:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by NICK_1

Hi all,

Although this wouldn't improve your system in a big way you could also run a few other tests when deciding if the bluetooth device is your phone (for example) as you said you would check the mac address but you could also refuse to do anything if the device name doesn't match something cryptic. This would give you a huge number of combinations and would be like keeping your password on your phone. (The one problem is if anyone scans for bt devices they also get your code and your mac so don't leave your phone visible to other devices)

Hmm interesting idea though. I wouldn't like to see your carputer get a virus though

Nick

Not keeping BT visible would be the hardest one from what I've read so far.

NICK_1 · 04-09-2005, 06:07 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by rushnrockt

Not keeping BT visible would be the hardest one from what I've read so far.

You could always turn bluetooth off... although I think this would be more hassle than using a convenntial entry method. I don't know the protocol details but when you set a device so that the option "visible to other devices" can people still detect you in any way? I know you can use paired devices in this state so it can't hide itself completely.

Nick

Saab9-5 · 04-10-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shakes

ok ... I suppose you're suggesting to use the MAC address as the 'ID' ... but where exactally does Radio Freq come into play?

afterall, you'd need both to even BEGIN to compare the two ... no?

You're kidding, right? Bluetooth uses radio waves as in RF to communicate in the first place. So that's where the RF in RFID comes in. Yes, the MAC address is one part of the ID with some people suggesting the device name be another part of the ID.

jbraddoc · 04-11-2005, 09:23 AM

What about this... Have the computer / phone pair use like a PGP type setup? I cant explain it right now, for lack of time, but. That would be cool.