The legalities of wardriving. - Page 11

phc · 07-11-2006, 08:17 PM

Ok, so if I'm at home logging on to my network with an SSID of "linksys" with no encryption. I then take off to work. In the course of driving to work, I wander into the range of someone else's "linksys" network, XP will log in automatically, without asking me.

It then continues to check for XP updates, perhaps checks email, looks for new anti-virus definations. All without my knowing.

Am I breaking the law? Is my computer breaking the law? Is Microsoft to blame?

Just some thoughts. FYI, my SSID is not "linksys" and my WiFi is encrypted and un-crackable.

PURDooM · 07-11-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by phc

Am I breaking the law? Is my computer breaking the law? Is Microsoft to blame?

1) Yes
2) It is just doing what you told it
3) No, your ignorance is to blame.

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking a law. Of course, it is a good defense if you get caught. You still managed to break a law.

BarryWoods · 07-11-2006, 09:50 PM

Okay, I'm not even a Windoze user and I know there's a checkbox to disable auto connecting.

Ignorance of the law won't get you anywhere in court. Ignorance and big tits might keep it from going that far though.

walstib · 07-11-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by phc

Just some thoughts. FYI, my SSID is not "linksys" and my WiFi is encrypted and un-crackable.

Really? The NSA would be very interested in the particulars of your un-crackable encryption techniques. Enough time and resources and anything is possible.

BarryWoods · 07-12-2006, 04:05 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by phc

Ok, so if I'm at home logging on to my network with an SSID of "linksys" with no encryption. I then take off to work. In the course of driving to work, I wander into the range of someone else's "linksys" network, XP will log in automatically, without asking me.

It then continues to check for XP updates, perhaps checks email, looks for new anti-virus definations. All without my knowing.

Am I breaking the law? Is my computer breaking the law? Is Microsoft to blame?

Just some thoughts. FYI, my SSID is not "linksys" and my WiFi is encrypted and un-crackable.

You're jokeing right?

phc · 07-12-2006, 02:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

You're jokeing right?

Nope. I use WPA. WPA is not crackable.

WEP was a poor implementation of a solid crypto idea and therefore is crackable.

WPA is good implementation of a solid crypto idea only vunerable via brute force (would take hundred's of centuries or more) or via password guessing. WPA uses RC4 encryption in addition to TKIP (keys change over time). WPA2 uses AES - encryption used for government "Top Secret" applicaitons.

My password is generated randomonly based on this perfect password generator and additional shuffeling of bits on my end.

https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm.

So you basically end up with random password that is 256 bits - so you end up with 1x10^77 possible passwords.

My wifi router uses open-source firmware, therefore no back-doors.

Like I said, my wifi is encrypted and un-crackable.

turbocad6 · 07-12-2006, 02:46 PM

has anyone ever even heard of a crack attempt on an indeviduals little wifi... I know tons of people who leave theres wide open & I have never heard anyone ever talk of there system being comprimised or tampered with...

has anyone ever heard of a situation that this has even happened in?

BarryWoods · 07-12-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by phc

Nope. I use WPA. WPA is not crackable.

WEP was a poor implementation of a solid crypto idea and therefore is crackable.

WPA is good implementation of a solid crypto idea only vunerable via brute force (would take hundred's of centuries or more) or via password guessing. WPA uses RC4 encryption in addition to TKIP (keys change over time). WPA2 uses AES - encryption used for government "Top Secret" applicaitons.

My password is generated randomonly based on this perfect password generator and additional shuffeling of bits on my end.

https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm.

So you basically end up with random password that is 256 bits - so you end up with 1x10^77 possible passwords.

My wifi router uses open-source firmware, therefore no back-doors.

Like I said, my wifi is encrypted and un-crackable.

WPA is crackable, just not as fast as WEP.

http://www.wirelessdefence.org/Conte...WPAttyMain.htm

As far as people actually getting caught doing it. Oops, missed the part about an individual. Most people wouldn't even report it.

http://www.channel3000.com/technolog...65/detail.html

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/8835

phc · 07-12-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

WPA is crackable, just not as fast as WEP.

Its not a crack, coWPAtty is a dictionary attack on the pre shared key, as I mentioned above. A weak key will always be vulernable to dictionary attacks.

My PSK is a purely random 256 bit password, resulting in over 1x10^77 possible passwords. Lets say you could test my wifi with 100,000 passwords per second (not sure what it really is), you would exhaust the possibilities in 3.66x10^64 years.

The english dictionary has about 60,000 words. You can find password dictionarys with 150,000+ unique words, but it doesn't compare to a 256 bit random password.

BarryWoods · 07-12-2006, 07:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by phc

Its not a crack, coWPAtty is a dictionary attack on the pre shared key, as I mentioned above. A weak key will always be vulernable to dictionary attacks.

My PSK is a purely random 256 bit password, resulting in over 1x10^77 possible passwords. Lets say you could test my wifi with 100,000 passwords per second (not sure what it really is), you would exhaust the possibilities in 3.66x10^64 years.

The english dictionary has about 60,000 words. You can find password dictionarys with 150,000+ unique words, but it doesn't compare to a 256 bit random password.

Hey, I did say it wasn't as fast as WEP!

You're in a very small minority of people who actually use non dictionary words. You must have edited your post the same time I replied, I didn't see that part when I hit reply. Then I had to run off and do some more work.

samc · 07-14-2006, 12:53 AM

Long responses and didn't read it all but

If you see an open door and you walk in the house, that's breaking an entering, your arrested.

You whip out your laptop and connect to someone's open 802.11g, is that the same? No. The technology is there and if a home user is dumb enough to plug and play his $50 router without doing some security passwords on it then it's his own problem.

I mean they created the writeable dvds at some point and people copy dvds all the time. Do you blame the person or the companies who created the technology to make such acts possible?

I personally am not that honest so I'll loose very little sleep from using someones wireless connection.

BarryWoods · 07-14-2006, 01:17 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by samc

Long responses and didn't read it all but

If you see an open door and you walk in the house, that's breaking an entering, your arrested.

You whip out your laptop and connect to someone's open 802.11g, is that the same? No. The technology is there and if a home user is dumb enough to plug and play his $50 router without doing some security passwords on it then it's his own problem.

I mean they created the writeable dvds at some point and people copy dvds all the time. Do you blame the person or the companies who created the technology to make such acts possible?

I personally am not that honest so I'll loose very little sleep from using someones wireless connection.

You walk into my house and your dead. If the 300lb plus of dogs don't get you I will. Locks and encryption keep the honest people honest. Everybody else are just freaking thieves.

Yes.

samc · 07-14-2006, 02:11 AM

Relax yourself cowboy, don't try to e-flex your muscles by saying your going to beef down an intruder when in fact you'll be hiding in the corner crying like a girl.

The technology is made, if "they" (term used loosely) didn't want you to use someone's connection why invent a wireless router, why invent a wireless card, why invent a computer?

You haven't ever copied a dvd, recorded a tv show on a vcr tape or installed an illegal copy of a program into your computer? Ofcourse you have, and yes all are illegal but it's a fact of life. Technology exists so these types of things won't stop.

If you don't want your wireless connection breached then properly secure it, simple right?

BarryWoods · 07-14-2006, 03:03 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by samc

Relax yourself cowboy, don't try to e-flex your muscles by saying your going to beef down an intruder when in fact you'll be hiding in the corner crying like a girl.

The technology is made, if "they" (term used loosely) didn't want you to use someone's connection why invent a wireless router, why invent a wireless card, why invent a computer?

You haven't ever copied a dvd, recorded a tv show on a vcr tape or installed an illegal copy of a program into your computer? Ofcourse you have, and yes all are illegal but it's a fact of life. Technology exists so these types of things won't stop.

If you don't want your wireless connection breached then properly secure it, simple right?

Last time I checked recording broadcast tv was leagle. Though I don't own a vcr anymore, my wife does record stuff on the pvr.

I own all my software thank-you.

Who said anything about "beefing" down an intruder, I'll shoot the bastard.

PURDooM · 07-14-2006, 03:07 AM

samc, you commit the slippery slope falacy by making those deductions and reasons. All of your statments are your opinions (and i disagree with most of them), and because they are opinions you can not state the end assertion as fact.

logic class ftw.

Quote:

# In the contexts of debate or of rhetoric, the phrase slippery slope, also appearing as the thin end of the wedge or the camel's nose, refers both to an argument about the likelihood of one event given another, and to a fallacy about the inevitability of one event given another. Invoking the "slippery slope" means predicting that one step in a process is likely to lead to a second (generally undesirable) step.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

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