The legalities of wardriving. - Page 5

Wiredwrx · 05-16-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

You know, we could keep arguing this crap till the sun explodes. I'm done. You guys just keep doing what your conscious will let you.

Well thanks for stopping by. Actually, I thought we had come to the conclusion that there is nothing illegal, and nothing actionable in almost ALL situations. Like I just said, PERHAPS in your case you could sue someone for about 15 bucks, but in general, there is nothing illegal or actionable about using someone wireless AP to surf the net.

Michael

3g Jester · 05-16-2006, 02:52 PM

cant we all just admit we surf the web using more then a starbucks or panera connection with our carputers? lol parked in a hotel parking lot leeching off their high speed wifi connection? hah. good or bad its what happens :P

WarDriver · 05-16-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 3g Jester

cant we all just admit we surf the web using more then a starbucks or panera connection with our carputers? lol parked in a hotel parking lot leeching off their high speed wifi connection? hah. good or bad its what happens :P

Guilty. In fact I'm not on my network right now.

Enforcer · 05-16-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

I'm done. You guys just keep doing what your conscious will let you.

Well thank you.

Rickertsen2 · 05-16-2006, 06:08 PM

Is its legal?: I'm pretty sure it's not
Do i care?:Absolutely not. It is a completely non-destructive crime with no victim and most likely nobody will ever notice. If you are ignorant enough to run an unsecured network well thats your fault.

joego · 05-16-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

s its legal?: I'm pretty sure it's not
Do i care?:Absolutely not. It is a completely non-destructive crime with no victim and most likely nobody will ever notice. If you are ignorant enough to run an unsecured network well thats your fault.

Silentbob343 · 05-17-2006, 02:20 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by yrean

i dont beleive its legal exactly. and morally its probably not right anyhow. but that doesnt mean it wont continue to happen. im sure theres loopholes with it in the law with alot of other things that occur on the internet that will allow people to continue to do it.

BTW. even secure networks arent secure.. if your running wireless even with encryption your not safe. hell actually mac addresses arent entirely safe since they can be cloned. but thats a little harder to do then break an encryption key. think im ****tying you? google "airsnort" thats the software that allows an encryption key to be decrypted just by testing packets. i never use encyption keys but filter by MAC.

Toms hardware had write up on how to do it, what software was needed etc. Just using WEP 128 it was a fairly time consuming process that is beyond most people's abilities.

Silentbob343 · 05-17-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by konnichiwa

Many people using wifi points do not 'listen in' to other peoples data, they just check their email, maybe download traffic + weather reports, then move on.

If you secure your Wifi point with simple 64bit it is implied security. I would not bother to wait around and crack it, I would simply drive 10 meters to the next access point!

You analogy has no point, i am not interested in your network traffic (phone call), i'm interested in using your phone for a few seconds.

While I have done it I have no misconceptions about it. Your taking my bandwidth and I'm taking somebody else's bandwidth. Checking email or movie times is no big deal and hence why I do it, but I'm still doing something that's not so nice.

Hell, you can't tap in to your neighbor’s cable and water, neither requires access to the inside of their house, so why can you tap in to their internet service legally?

Silentbob343 · 05-17-2006, 02:33 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

WPA is pretty easy as well, just takes a little longer. Wardrivers don't connect, period. Once you connect you are a thief, period. 99% of all internet prividers have a no sharing clause in their TOS.

That TOS is for those who agreed to it and to ensure the connection isn't being abused, i.e. not using a resdential service for a business or public use. That is why ISPs offer business packages, etc. Call up up DirecTV and tell them you you want a setup for an employee breakroom they will charge you more per month as it's considered semi-public viewing and a ton more if you were playing it for everybody that entered the business, i.e. a retail store considered public viewing.

Silentbob343 · 05-17-2006, 02:36 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

My isp is gci.com, their highspeed cable connections aren't unlimited. Let me do a little digging, I'll get you the laws you want. Oh wait, the Department of Justice is the court.

heh most ISPs do have a limit, but usually not advertised. I had a friend that got a nice letter from comcast stating that he was going over the limit and that they would bump his monthly charges if it continued. I had Comcast at the time and never recieved a letter nor had I heard of any monthly limits. I'm sure it's buried in some small print somewhere.

Silentbob343 · 05-17-2006, 02:37 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by yrean

sigh...... and you think it would be that easy. first off, prove that i was on your network when that picture was taken. a picture of my car doesnt mean ****. look at my worklog and take all the pictures you want. chances are im sitting outside your house for a total of a minute to check weather. the chances of you getting back to your window with a camera before i drive off are slim to none. and then theres the fact of court costs. lol .. go ahead spend 5 grand trying to take someone to court for 200kb. secure your network with a mac if you dont want anyone on it. otherwise an open AP is just that. an OPEN ap. when you start broadcasting wireless it is also your job to secure the network. if you dont the only person at fault is you.

heh, he would spend the five grand and then tack on court fees for you to pay as well. Would he win....hell if I know

Silentbob343 · 05-17-2006, 02:47 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by 3g Jester

cant we all just admit we surf the web using more then a starbucks or panera connection with our carputers? lol parked in a hotel parking lot leeching off their high speed wifi connection? hah. good or bad its what happens :P

Finally some who gets it and admits it. Yes what we do is perhaps illegal and some what wrong, but email and web surfing isn't a big deal. Now if somebody is using uTorrent, which kills bandwidth, or raping newsgroups you are defiantly stealing bandwidth as it slows the connection to a crawl.

To the other people in this thread who see nothing wrong with it:
If you say checking email and surfing is not illegal, then where dose the line get drawn and why? We are taking bandwidth no matter how small or how short it may be, just be reasonable when doing it. I'm as guilty as the next, but if you try to jusitfy it then it's all or nothing.

yrean · 05-17-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Silentbob343

Toms hardware had write up on how to do it, what software was needed etc. Just using WEP 128 it was a fairly time consuming process that is beyond most people's abilities.

when your talking about WEP. every bit of data sends part of the hash out. so when your wireless card sends data the router sees the hash and allows you to connect and transmit. programs like airsnort can(over time) decifer that hash value and spit out what the hex key is for the WEP. in reality most people will not sit around for the 15 mins or so (depending on how much wireless traffic there is on your network) to get your key. MAC addresses can be cracked also, but are a little harder in reality there also really easy to setup. just open up your network. connect with a device wirelessly. look at the wireless log, it gives the MAC Addresss, goto the filter by mac page, restrict by mac and add the address as one allowed. on a wireless connection, nothing is 100% secured.

As far as data usage, and electrical usage. lol i think your 5 dollars for a couple minutes worth of electricity is kinda high... since the electronics are already on, there is no power on condition(where alot of power is consumed) your added strain on the electric would probably result in 20 cents. not 5 bucks. i have 3 pc's, a router, a modem, and other electronics that run all month long and my bill is only 40 bucks. now if we were talking about gas powered stuff well...lol with todays gas prices i would shed a tear for you. and agree with the $5 cost.

And just for the record, I pay for unlimited verizon wireless broadband thru a pcmcia card, i have no need to wardrive since im always connected. If i did wardrive, id have no problem with it. if you dont secure your network, its your fault. and btw. I have no conceince. I stuffed it in a locker when i was in highschool.

BarryWoods · 05-17-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by yrean

And just for the record, I pay for unlimited verizon wireless broadband thru a pcmcia card, i have no need to wardrive since im always connected. If i did wardrive, id have no problem with it. if you dont secure your network, its your fault. and btw. I have no conceince. I stuffed it in a locker when i was in highschool.

That's freaking hilarious! Always on internet would be sooo cool.