The legalities of wardriving. - Page 7

turbocad6 · 05-18-2006, 05:39 PM

take what? who's taking anything from you? it's not being taken, it's being given.... if you leave your ac on full blast with a window open & someone walks past... feels the cool air & stands there & cools off, are they stealing your ac?

go ahead & leave your money on the sidewalk & complain that someone picked it up.... there stealing it? sure it's yours not theres, but you are leaving it for anyone to take... it's open.... how many times would you walk past a $50 bill on the sidewalk & say your not taking it because it doesn't belong to you.....

I leave a light on outside my shop at night.... I guess I should put a sign up saying: "please don't use the light I am shining out here, or you will be prosecuted for stealing my illumination"....

the bandwidth in most cases is already paid for.... in a sense it is free in that it is already included, & it is being broadcasted to me, & anyone else that wants it.... theres no stealing involved...

if I got am fm transmitter & broadcast me making love to my wife, I'm going to blame you for listening?.... I'd be the moron, not the guy who happens to tune it in & listens....

TruckinMP3 · 05-18-2006, 05:42 PM

Dude, relax.
As counsel you know the rules

Opinions are not law. That is what I was driving at. If you are posting as counsel, say so. The rest is, well, opinion.

This topic is one reason among many I do not have any wireless devices at all.

Wiredwrx · 05-18-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by TruckinMP3

Dude, relax.
As counsel you know the rules

Opinions are not law. That is what I was driving at. If you are posting as counsel, say so. The rest is, well, opinion.

This topic is one reason among many I do not have any wireless devices at all.

I was posting opinion, based on the law. I am certainly no legal expert, but I do know that absent a law, there is no law to be broken. It has been said several times in the thread (not just by you) that it is illegal, and yet no one has been able to find a law that makes it illegal. It's like me saying "sneezing is illegal" With out a law, or seeing the law, I can say it is most definitely NOT illegal. Perhaps it should be illegal, since it spreads germs. Perhaps one day it MIGHT be illegal, but right now it is not.

Same thing, perhaps it should be illegal, perhaps it will be illegal in the future, but it is currecntly NOT ILLEGAL. If you want to not do soemthing for other then legal reasons, by all means, no one can fault you. But, that is not the same as it being illegal.

Michael

turbocad6 · 05-18-2006, 06:02 PM

I personally have a very high standard for myself & am a very morally responsable person, I wouldn't steal from someone, I would go out of my way to help a stranger..... I don't feel that I am doing anything wrong, not hurting anyone... & If I did I wouldn't do it..... pretty harsh to say that people like me are the ones who forced the invention of door locks

b8bboi · 05-18-2006, 06:10 PM

For this "law" to past, one must clearly defines the boundaries between a private area and the public area. I mean you can't get a super hugeass antenna, broadcast your wireless network over the entire neighborhood and sue everyone who uses it.

The way I see it. If I stand on your lawn and use your Internet, it's probably illegal. If I stand on the street and use your Internet, it's legal. You can't extend your private property (Internet service in this case) to the public area and sue people for using it.

turbocad6 · 05-18-2006, 06:25 PM

EXACTLY!!!!! anything else & it'd be considered entrapment..... it's being freely broadcast.... into the public.... given away.....

turbocad6 · 05-18-2006, 07:11 PM

the term war driving comes from the symbols people in soho & cali started to use to make it known that there was an open hotspot available..most were done buy the person providing the hotspot..

.. they were usually either drawn with chalk or painted & they resembled ancient war symbols .....war walking came before war driving.... & it's whole intent was to share....

.. if you have a firewall on your machine then leaving your internet open is just sharing.... my corners been hot for years now thanks to me & I have people sitting in the pizza joint cross the street on there laptops going, oh look, an open access point... who cares....

my car is an open hotspot whenever it's running.... I think it'd be cool if someone were to share it.... who cares......

the guys with open hotspots usually don't care..... I know many people who open hotspots to all...... the world would be a better place if we all shared

Enforcer · 05-18-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

the term war driving comes from the symbols people in soho & cali started to use to make it known that there was an open hotspot available..most were done buy the person providing the hotspot..

.. they were usually either drawn with chalk or painted & they resembled ancient war symbols .....war walking came before war driving.... & it's whole intent was to share....

which originally came from tramps (hobos) who used to mark with chalk outside houses where the owners were friendly or generous to them. ie would give food or shelter.

Rickertsen2 · 05-18-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

21 seconds.
http://www.wirelessdefence.org/Conte...ed_WPA_Attack:

Thats cheating

Only works on weak keys. Not only that, its using a rainbow table. Thats a vulerability in poor user chosen passphrases and they way they are hashed, not WPA. That sort of attack can be used anywhere a text password is hashed into a key, which is exactly the reason i don't use that method. The fact is, most people choose weak passwords so this attack is effective in many cases, but is easily preventable by using a random hex key instead of that sissy text password hashing crap.

BarryWoods · 05-18-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by turbocad6

the term war driving comes from the symbols people in soho & cali started to use to make it known that there was an open hotspot available..most were done buy the person providing the hotspot..

.. they were usually either drawn with chalk or painted & they resembled ancient war symbols .....war walking came before war driving.... & it's whole intent was to share....

.. if you have a firewall on your machine then leaving your internet open is just sharing.... my corners been hot for years now thanks to me & I have people sitting in the pizza joint cross the street on there laptops going, oh look, an open access point... who cares....

my car is an open hotspot whenever it's running.... I think it'd be cool if someone were to share it.... who cares......

the guys with open hotspots usually don't care..... I know many people who open hotspots to all...... the world would be a better place if we all shared

Where the hell do you get your information???

Wardriving (War Driving) - The hobby of searching out and mapping 802.11b wireless networks. Also known as Warwalking, and War-riding, depending on the conveyance used. Originally coined by Peter Shipley of Dis.org

You're talking about warchalking, which is a myth. No one warchalks, unless they are dumbasses. What would be the point??

BarryWoods · 05-18-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

Thats cheating

Only works on weak keys. Not only that, its using a rainbow table. Thats a vulerability in poor user chosen passphrases and they way they are hashed, not WPA. That sort of attack can be used anywhere a text password is hashed into a key, which is exactly the reason i don't use that method. The fact is, most people choose weak passwords so this attack is effective in many cases, but is easily preventable by using a random hex key instead of that sissy text password hashing crap.

How's it cheating?? How many people do you know that actually use a 28 random character password??

turbocad6 · 05-18-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

Where the hell do you get your information???

Wardriving (War Driving) - The hobby of searching out and mapping 802.11b wireless networks. Also known as Warwalking, and War-riding, depending on the conveyance used. Originally coined by Peter Shipley of Dis.org

You're talking about warchalking, which is a myth. No one warchalks, unless they are dumbasses. What would be the point??

that particular information came from my head... I've read it places & heard it others.....numerous times from numerous sources...remember the first time I saw symbols like this in the village in nyc.... remember someone telling me about that back then too.... my thought process tells me this was true....I even remember reading articles about this with pictures & everything

I'm pretty sure if I bothered to google & paste I could find a bunch of supporting info. but I really don't care enough to...

of course no one is warchalking now adays, but a myth???? I don't think so... who knows... maybe... if you say so.... guess it could be.... I still don't think so though...

Rickertsen2 · 05-18-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BarryWoods

How's it cheating?? How many people do you know that actually use a 28 random character password??

I will give you that it works on a scary percentage of networks, but not me. I don't use the functionality of converting a text password into a hex key at all. All i am saying is that it is NOT a flaw of WPA itself but rather how most people enter their encryption key. That program exploits a vulnerability of passwords period rather than WPA.

BarryWoods · 05-18-2006, 10:47 PM

You want to see something really cool? Go to www.wigle.net and click on the webmaps link. Ahhh, screw it, click this link.
This is filtering just "linksys". It still amazes me that people just plug it in and use it. That's probably why they come from the factory with no encryption set. Think of all the calls they'd be getting because no one could connect to their own network. Oh, if anyone was wandering, my network is there too. Scroll up to Alaska, the blob in the middle is Fairbanks, I'm just a bit to the south east of there. It's not linksys....

jmbickham · 05-22-2006, 02:43 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiredwrx

I was posting opinion, based on the law. I am certainly no legal expert, but I do know that absent a law, there is no law to be broken. It has been said several times in the thread (not just by you) that it is illegal, and yet no one has been able to find a law that makes it illegal. It's like me saying "sneezing is illegal" With out a law, or seeing the law, I can say it is most definitely NOT illegal. Perhaps it should be illegal, since it spreads germs. Perhaps one day it MIGHT be illegal, but right now it is not.

Same thing, perhaps it should be illegal, perhaps it will be illegal in the future, but it is currecntly NOT ILLEGAL. If you want to not do soemthing for other then legal reasons, by all means, no one can fault you. But, that is not the same as it being illegal.

Michael

to expand on this...

Negative liberty vs positive liberty (Isaiah Berlin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Berlin)... or more simply "freedom from" vs "freedom to". Two different, but both valid, ideals of liberty. Generally the US works with the ideal of negative liberty embodied in the constitution. All rights not reservered to the federal government or the states belongs to the people. If there isn't explicitly a law forbiding it... making it illegal... then is it legal.

Speeding is illegal. There is a law.

Driving through a yellow light isn't illegal. Red is illegal. Yellow means "prepare to stop", not "stop". Racing to catch a yellow light isn't technically illegal, but a cop is likely going to catch you with reckless driving.... or speeding too if you exceeded the speed limit.

Picking up a dollar... fifty dollars that are left sitting on the road isn't illegal. Who is in POSSESSION of it? How do we know who "owns" it?

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