Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1 - Page 51

HiJackZX1 · 07-23-2009, 10:03 AM

What PSU is he using though. Most PSUs have battery protection to keep that from ever happening. I had a M2-ATX and that worked perfectly, never killed my battery. The OPUS 320 is supper anal about killing the battery. If I go even one percent under its recommended voltage, it will start to shut down the entire system. Since I designed the my setup to be controlled by the OPUS, nothing is left on to kill the battery. If it works for you then go for it. Like you said though, Josh is running a full Desktop PC, you on the other hand are running a true power saving mobile system, so you may be going overkill, um errr, that sounds funny coming from me, lol.

rdholtz · 07-23-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

What PSU is he using though.

He's running on an inverter, right now. We keep thinking that "next weekend" we'll install his Opus 320, but we haven't, yet, for several months. He's going out of town in Wendi's car for a week or so, so maybe I'll sneak it in there while he's gone.
**displays evil grin**

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Like you said though, Josh is running a full Desktop PC, you on the other hand are running a true power saving mobile system, so you may be going overkill, um errr, that sounds funny coming from me, lol.

It'd sound funny from either of us, too -- we need a support group called Overkillers Unanimous. The group's motto would be, "If a little will do a little good, a lot should do a lot of good."

HiJackZX1 · 07-23-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by rdholtz

He's running on an inverter, right now. We keep thinking that "next weekend" we'll install his Opus 320, but we haven't, yet, for several months. He's going out of town in Wendi's car for a week or so, so maybe I'll sneak it in there while he's gone.
**displays evil grin**

It'd sound funny from either of us, too -- we need a support group called Overkillers Unanimous. The group's motto would be, "If a little will do a little good, a lot should do a lot of good."

Yea I think you should do that for him, he wont have to worry about either battery dying.

LOL, I actually like that. I can picture that on my website. They wont get it though until they start reading through it and see my work log.

rdholtz · 07-23-2009, 03:07 PM

"If a little will do a little good, a lot should do a lot of good."

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

LOL, I actually like that. I can picture that on my website. They wont get it though until they start reading through it and see my work log.

I'm a longtime believer in overkill. My tagline on my worklog covers it pretty well: "If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect."

I like overkill when it's something I'd hate to have to re-do, or something that could come back and bite me. Like this:
.

freeflashstuff · 07-23-2009, 05:55 PM

Reading about you using the batteries from a UPS makes me wonder if I could cannibalize the batteries from my electric scooter(two 12V batteries in series for a 24V electric motor, just change them to parallel). How are they recharged in that setup? I understand you're using relays to isolate them?

HiJackZX1 · 07-23-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by freeflashstuff

Reading about you using the batteries from a UPS makes me wonder if I could cannibalize the batteries from my electric scooter(two 12V batteries in series for a 24V electric motor, just change them to parallel). How are they recharged in that setup? I understand you're using relays to isolate them?

I think he is using a battery ISOLATER... It is made to handle the high energy output. I would assume a relay would melt and break if it isnt specifically made to handle the power coming from the AMP.

rdholtz · 07-24-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by freeflashstuff

Reading about you using the batteries from a UPS makes me wonder if I could cannibalize the batteries from my electric scooter(two 12V batteries in series for a 24V electric motor, just change them to parallel). How are they recharged in that setup? I understand you're using relays to isolate them?

It seems perfectly feasible to use the scooter batteries. The 12V batteries I'm using are normally run as a group of four in series for 48V, but I'm running two of them in parallel. The auxiliary batteries just charge from the main battery and thus the alternator. I'll write it all up today, and tonight I'll do a schematic. The "mini-isolator" is outrageously easy to do, and it's inexpensive. Even better, it's had well over a year of road testing, so we know it works.

Quote: Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

I think he is using a battery ISOLATER... It is made to handle the high energy output. I would assume a relay would melt and break if it isnt specifically made to handle the power coming from the AMP.

Well, yes, I'm using an isolator, but not the sort sold for that purpose. It's just an auto-parts-store relay that costs $5. It's a 12V 40A relay, so it isn't going to burn up, and -- to be sure -- it's protected at each battery by a 30A breaker.

freeflashstuff · 07-24-2009, 10:08 AM

Before I leave:

And...

freeflashstuff · 07-25-2009, 02:42 AM

Just wondering, have you done the schematic yet? I'm curious as to how you have all this hooked up.

rdholtz · 07-25-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by freeflashstuff

Just wondering, have you done the schematic yet? I'm curious as to how you have all this hooked up.

I don't have the schematic done, yet. It's partly finished. I'll get it today, I promise. Here's the first part:

Electrical Installation

Josh is the expert in wiring matters, and I've leaned on him for his experience and advice in this area.

The presence of an auxiliary battery changes the way I'm wiring the car. I see four operating scenarios:

Engine____PC________Aux Battery_
OffxxxxxxxOffxxxxxxxNot charging
OnxxxxxxxxOnxxxxxxxxCharging
OnxxxxxxxxOffxxxxxxxCharging
OffxxxxxxxOnxxxxxxxxNot charging

The first scenario is when everything is off, and the second is when everything is on.

The third scenario is when I've left the computer off while running the engine -- a "valet switch" scenario; but even if the PC is off, the Aux Battery is still getting charged.

The last scenario is where the Aux Battery comes in handy: running the PC with the engine off, such as when I'm making a quick stop at a rest area and want to leave the system running with the engine off, or when I'm downloading from the home network and don't want to leave the engine running. Operating the PC doesn't affect the car's main battery at all.

The M4-ATX PSU will still control the system, shutting it down if there's a low-voltage situation on the Aux Battery. And I can use the touchscreen's power button to shut the LCD panel off at any time.

Some people use a battery isolator when they run a second battery, so the main battery doesn't get drained. In fact, I have an isolator in my spare parts, but I'd need the installation kit, which is around $20. Josh has figured a way to build a mini-isolator that's simple and tiny. He's running the prototype in his car, and it's performed without a hiccup for well over a year.

Josh's Mini-Isolator
With Josh's mini-isolator, the PC never runs off the main battery, only the auxiliary battery, so I'm never in danger of killing the main one. The switch lets me control when the PC operates, but the vehicle's ignition state determines whether the auxiliary battery is charging: when the ignition is on, it's charging, and when the ignition is off, it's not charging.

The mini-isolator still takes advantage of the M4-ATX's ability to shut the computer system down if the auxiliary battery's voltage drops too low. If the auxiliary battery fails completely, the system responds as if it's wired into the car's system without the auxiliary battery.

Simple Parts
The main things to purchase:

SPST switch, 12V
Two inline fuse holders
Two breakers to fit in the fuse holders -- 30A, 12V
Relay -- 40A, 12V

In the U.S., you should be able to get these parts for about US$20. Everything else is standard: wire, wire ends, and so on; what you need depends on how you want your connections.

I'll get the schematic finished so it's clearer how to wire it up, and -- with a little weather luck -- I can get photos of my system in progress.

captcol · 07-25-2009, 06:56 AM

I am pretty sure I follow what you have said above, are you still using a ignition relay to trigger the system to turn on?

and when you say if the aux battery dies the m4atx shuts down the system and it acts as though on the main battery do you mean it stays shut down as though all batteries are flat or switches back to main battery?

How do you prevent an over charge situation?

I am not that offay with batteries, but with these being sealed units (the only kind you are allowed to use in a passenger compartmnet?) what is the risk risk of explosion or melt down?

rdholtz · 07-25-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by captcol

I am pretty sure I follow what you have said above, are you still using a ignition relay to trigger the system to turn on?

Yes, turning the ignition on closes the relay and allows the auxiliary battery to charge.

Quote: Originally Posted by captcol

. . . and when you say if the aux battery dies the m4atx shuts down the system and it acts as though on the main battery do you mean it stays shut down as though all batteries are flat or switches back to main battery?

If the auxiliary batteries are dead, the system will only run if the ignition is on (although the engine doesn't have to be running). It won't deplete the main battery, because the system still has the PSU's voltage-sensing capability; if the voltage in the system is too low, the PSU shuts the PC down.

Quote: Originally Posted by captcol

How do you prevent an over charge situation?

The alternator is a self-regulating system. It produces alternating current, and then converts it to DC, but it only puts out enough direct current to meet demand. Maybe a battery charger -- which puts out a steady flow of current -- could overcharge a battery, but I've never heard of an alternator doing it.

Quote: Originally Posted by captcol

I am not that offay with batteries, but with these being sealed units (the only kind you are allowed to use in a passenger compartmnet?) what is the risk risk of explosion or melt down?

I've never heard of either explosion or meltdown with sealed units, but I guess it could happen. Batteries tend to die quietly, not violently; they just don't accept a charge -- or don't hold a charge -- any more. Explosions are generally caused by extremely rapid charging -- as when a battery charger is used -- and the extremely rapid buildup of gas. If a battery explodes, you know somebody screwed up badly.

I expect the more likely cause of any problem in my car would be somebody in the back seat kicking the batteries repeatedly. Except to check out the amazing amount of legroom in the Scion's back seat, I don't think anyone's been there for over a year, so passenger damage is pretty unlikely, too. Even so, I plan to mount the batteries firmly and use a battery tray in case one is damaged somehow and develops a leak.

freeflashstuff · 07-25-2009, 02:23 PM

Thanks RDHoltz! I see what you're doing now. I get it now.

HiJackZX1 · 07-25-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rdholtz

I expect the more likely cause of any problem in my car would be somebody in the back seat kicking the batteries repeatedly. Except to check out the amazing amount of legroom in the Scion's back seat, I don't think anyone's been there for over a year, so passenger damage is pretty unlikely, too. Even so, I plan to mount the batteries firmly and use a battery tray in case one is damaged somehow and develops a leak.

OMG, thats a scary thought, lol. Hopefully your passengers know not to do something like that.

RDHoltz, I have a question though, but it pertains more to my electrical system. It turns out the previous owner ghetto rigged my car. Nothing is setup the way it should be. One thing they did was run the alternator wire straight to the fuse box!!!!!!!! I want to add it back to the battery, but I wonder if I can use these type of terminals?

I have never seen them used on my type of install. Thing is I have three 0 Gauge connections and a 8 gauge. I could go with this:

I cant fit the 8 gauge though. If I want to use this one, I could connect the Starter wire to fuse box, which has a connection running to the battery, but not sure if thats wise. Basically the starter wire would be connected to the battery indirectly. Which should I do?

freeflashstuff · 07-25-2009, 03:44 PM

Here's what I use:

The smallest wire goes to the interior electrical system. The red one goes to my distro block (30A fuse) then to my distro block in the trunk(amplifier and PC; each has a 20A fuse. The other is from the alternator. I picked up the teminal at AutoZone for around $15. It still has one opening on it, as does my big distro block. The one in my trunk still has 3 open slots.

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