Help Bugbyte kill his car PC with an iTouch/iPhone install - Page 11

Bugbyte · 04-13-2009, 01:08 PM

I received the bluetooth touchscreen from Dealextreme today. It is intended for the EEEPC 1000

It has a controller that plugs into a USB port inside the computer. I presume that I can plug it into a USB port on a regular PC but need some kind of controller for it. The one it ships with works for XP only, I think.

Anyone got any ideas whether/where I can find an alternate driver for it (maybe Linux)?

MAZDABOY · 04-14-2009, 12:38 AM

I would love to be able to do this as well. I don't see the point of that linux pc, it doesn't even have vga or ps2 ports. So what are you going to do with it?
I want to switch over to the itouch/iphone as well so hopefully you will get it figure out.

Bugbyte · 04-14-2009, 12:52 AM

The point of the linux PC is that the iPhone DOES NOT connect to external stuff like a relay board. Or an XM Direct. Or an OBDII.

Question: How would you connect you iPhone to these devices?

Answer: You can't.

End of story.

So - you have the iPhone, which has a lot of internal capability but at the end of the day is still an iPhone with no way to interface with the external world.

What if you wanted to remote control your car with it? Auto-start? Roll windows up and down? Control the HVAC?

There's really only one solution - you'll have to connect wirelessly with the hardware devices you want to control. If you want to control relays, you'll need a relay board with WiFi built in.

If you want to read OBDII, you'll need an OBDII cable with WiFi built in.

If you want to control an XM Direct, you'll need an XM Direct with WiFi built in.

This is a lot of cash plus, except for the Rev product with OBDII WiFi, these products don't exist.

The only way I can think of to interface with external devices is to use another computer. But I don't want to break the bank installing a computer system. If I do that, I might as well settle for the existing system I already have in the car and discard the iPhone.

The Sheeva plug represents an inexpensive ($99) embedded computer system that I can control from the iPhone if I connect it to an old router I already have. I don't need a display - I need it to control my hardware. Relays, XM Direct, OBDII and so forth.

Since there are Linux solutions for these devices, I don't see why I can't run the hardware I already own off of a cheap 'helper' PC and access all of that data from the iPhone as if it were out there on the web somewhere.

If I'm missing something as far as a solution for controlling external stuff with the iPhone is concerned, somebody clue me in. I'd appreciate it.

MAZDABOY · 04-14-2009, 12:58 AM

That would be so cool if you can roll up/down windows with the itouch. For me I would just use the itouch for music. Not really into the other stuff.
Good luck!

Bugbyte · 04-14-2009, 01:02 AM

Well, the iPhone interface is really not very suitable for in car use. It's a way small screen that you have to look at to operate. Not good for driving at all.

What you really want is a way to either touch on a larger screen or use a Griffin Powermate controller to operate a custom frontend app.

I've already figured out video and audio. That only take $49 for the Apple iPod Video cable and a jailbroken iPod running Screenspliter or TVOut. Fairly straightforward. It's the other stuff that is more difficult.

rdholtz · 04-15-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bugbyte

The only way I can think of to interface with external devices is to use another computer. But I don't want to break the bank installing a computer system. If I do that, I might as well settle for the existing system I already have in the car and discard the iPhone.

While the original point of your effort was to use the iPhone to replace the carPC, you've seen a brick wall and, instead of abandoning the project, simply modified the approach -- temporarily. You're taking the tools available and moving ahead.

But even if you were starting with no system in your car, you won't spend so much more on a complete PC system that you'd break the bank and have to "discard the iPhone."

Cheap Server vs PC
That $99 SheevaPlug is really nifty. It trumps an XP unit in size and cost, but they still aren't miles apart. A comparable, but more powerful, PC based on the Atom chip is only $80 (board) + $25 (memory). Add a 4GB USB stick ($25), and buy somebody's old dead PC for the XP license on the case ($20?). The result is a fairly powerful system that will run Windows XP, for $50 more than the SheevaPlug. If we spring for a nifty case and a nice hard drive, we still only have $300 in it.

The XP system needs clean 12V power, and the SheevaPlug needs clean 5V power, so we'll end up spending money on a PSU. Let's go overboard and use an M2-ATX ( $75) to power the PC or server plus the screen. And let's add an 8-inch Lilliput 889GL LED-backlit touchscreen ($220).

Then add an iPhone. Depending on the iPhone cost, the total is $1000 or so for the PC and $800 or so for the SheevaPlug system. When we get done, the XP system is maybe $200 more than the SheevaPlug system. That's not going to break the bank.

The XP system is a better deal for me because I know next to nothing about Linux; I really don't want to climb that learning curve, and will pay the extra $200 to avoid it.

The iPhone Makes the Difference
Either way, the iPhone opens up a new realm of possibilities; its capacity keeps moving ahead, and software vendors rush to write programs and utilities that take advantage of it. Apple's leading the pack, profiting handsomely, and building the best brand name in the business.

". . . and discard the iPhone"? Absolutely not. That's where the majority of us will be headed, soon. You're in front of the pack, and we're playing catchup. We may not all follow you down the Linux path, but we'll be tracking parallel with PCs. Maybe you can lead the way to using only the iPhone.

No matter how we use it, the iPhone is a stunning but incomplete work of conceptualization, engineering, design and marketing. I appreciate its capabilities, moan at its shortcomings, and decided to use it because it's the best in its class and improving faster than anything like it. (I'll get mine as soon as the new version comes out.)

Paradigm Shift
I suspect the iPhone is a paradigm shift similar to the advent of aviation in this country. When airlines started to grow, the railroads still acted as if they were in the railroad business, the trucking companies still acted like they were in the trucking business, and bus lines still acted like they were in the bus business. They all ignored airplanes, even as evidence mounted that their business models were in danger. But the airlines didn't act like they were in the airline business. They shifted the paradigm, decided they weren't so limited, and went into the "transportation" business. They took huge chunks of business from rails and trucks and buses. Railroads and bus lines have never recovered.

Most phone manufacturers -- and their software-providing partners -- still act like they're in the communications business. Apple thinks it's in a much broader business, and has moved beyond being a fancy phone to being a "lifestyle support system" or something like that. Despite the fact that I don't have a good name for where they're headed, that's a paradigm shift. The Apple market share numbers indicate consumers think so, too.

For now, whether I run a Linux SheevaPlug or an XP PC in my car, I want the iPhone to be its playmate.

meagain · 04-20-2009, 02:36 PM

New Apple A/V Cable coming out..... What does this mean for us?

http://i.gizmodo.com/5219803/retaile...apple-iphonetv

MAZDABOY · 04-20-2009, 02:37 PM

nothing.

kandyman676 · 04-25-2009, 06:39 PM

Read up on this thread. It has been several years since my last CarPC, but been eyeing the scene for too many years :-)

Great work Bugbyte for pioneering this venture! I heavily agree that the iPhone (in due time) will REPLACE our CarPCs. We are in a point now in technology where everything is becoming more integrated, smaller, smarter, and faster. The iPhone is a Darwin port like Mac OS X, severally stripped down. read up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_OS

The june "refresh" of the iPhone will make it nearly a netbook between processing power, memory, speed, and functionality. External screen, touchscreen control (or even a trackpad..hint hint), and dockable to the two is the real key. It would *not* surprise me someone comes out with a special dock to make your iphone into a mini desktop computer....everything is there, its a mater of interfacing it.

Key items for the OS include:

Peer to peer network via Bluetooth
Control of the device via Apple's API (seems to be the ipod to device, not the other way around...but only a matter of time to reverse hack)
Turn by turn (big upgrade for GPS/nav)
Access your music from applications (at least this starts to get around to playing your music at the same time your nav is running)

Source: http://gizmodo.com/5171796/iphone-30...u-need-to-know

Another LARGE thing to consider is Android from Google..its also is making some steam, but not as much as iPhone/iTouch. The biggest thing about its OS is that some overseas manufactures, HP, and Dell are starting to tinker with the OS running on netbooks/tablets...
http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9132109

Thus it could be the perfect candidate for your "dock" OS for a reduced footprint.

I may throw my hat into the ring in June when this new phone is out. Been considering it for a year, just finances have been tight and got some extra $$'s from selling some of my unused stuff to stockpile for the next car integration.

Bugbyte · 04-25-2009, 07:43 PM

Thanks, Kandyman. I'm even more sure of this as time goes by. Right now, not all of the pieces are in place, but I expect that the 3.0 software release will expand the solution space. If you get the cash, we'd love to have you join in on the fun. As a group, I think we can probably get to some solutions.

kandyman676 · 04-25-2009, 11:27 PM

No problem dude. I did some some surfing around to see what you can get that is
A) Low power (and/or easy to DC <= 12V).
B) Can do linux (or bonus of XPe/XP)
C) Small and under $99

That's when i ran across the HP Thin terminals on Ebay like this guy for $99 and under:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-T5710-800MHz-...3%3A1|294%3A50

There are plenty of hacks to make these guys do Linux, XPe, or XP to make it your *dock* persay for the same price...most by default run off a CF card, but there are plenty of ones out there with harddrives or instructions on how to hack it up.

This would at least reduce your PC "dock" costs from $300 to $100.

Bugbyte · 04-26-2009, 12:08 AM

I've never seen that before. How old are those things? It looks like they list new for around $600.

Bugbyte · 04-26-2009, 12:56 AM

How well is the iPhone experiment going so far? I've just gotten a chance to use it on a long trip (about 600 miles roundtrip) and compared it side by side to my Mac install running the ICE3 frontend software.

Summary: It works pretty well. It is far from a perfect solution, but it does work well. It needs some type of integration to keep it from being a hazard to operate when driving. The screen is too small and requires too much concentration to use safely when operating the vehicle.

How I used it
Most of the time, a car PC will be doing multiple tasks such as music plus something else (like GPS). The iPhone will only run one application at a time. Thus, if you want to listen to something like Pandora streaming radio, you cannot do so at the same time you are browsing the web.

Multi-taskingThe official explanation for the multi-tasking limitation is that it eats battery life. I can attest to this, having run multiple apps in the background. However, since I am running the iPhone in a car, I simply plug the phone into a car power supply and this issue is moot.

One way around this restriction is to jailbreak the iPhone and load an application called Backgrounder, which allows apps to run in the background while you run another app. Backgrounder lets you assign certain programs to run in the background each time you launch them. For instance, I have my GPS tracking program set to automatically load and run in the background.

The GPS problemThe big hole in the iPhone world is turn by turn navigation. While this is constantly rumored to be 'coming soon,' there are already programs that will do navigation (xGPS) if you are willing to jailbreak the iPhone.

xGPS gives turn by turn nav directions over a Google map display and does a credible job of providing nav info. While it needs a few things added to improve it, the program is reasonably ready for prime time and I have been using it with good success in the car.

Typical Usage
I tend to do a couple of things on my car PC. 1) play music; 2) run GPS or a GPS tracking program; 3) Check traffic occasionally.

With Backgrounder, it is easy to stream Pandora radio for music

while displaying GPS tracking or route information,

relay your position to the web,

and check Google traffic -all at the same time.

However....

This is all great. However, the problem is still that the iPhone interface, as nice as it is, is not designed for operation while in the car. You have to concentrate and look at the screen to press some buttons and the button sizes are fine for hand held use but can be very difficult to press when the car is in motion - especially when it is even a little bumpy.

In addition, the experience is not 'integrated'. I've put all of my commonly used in-car apps on a single home page, but it still feels like the old days of personal computers when you could only run one program at a time. When you needed to run another, you closed the open program and loaded the new one.

Even with backgrounder, you have to go to the home screen and then hit the icon of the backgrounded app. While it pops up instantly without the loading time, the whole process feels like you aren't using a seamless product.

Final Grade I give the iPhone a C+ as a grade for the in car experience. It brings a lot of capability and extensibility to your mobile experience, but it also would benefit from an integrated front end type app and the ability to control the phone from another device like a Griffin Powermate.

1wiseash · 04-29-2009, 06:48 PM

Does anyone appreciate the irony of a video about hacking an alternate video display for your iPhone not actually being viewable on the iPhone itself? My kingdom for an iPhone with Flash support! (Palm Pre supports Flash.

)

Bugbyte · 04-30-2009, 04:32 PM

I can definitely appreciate it. That's a today problem. In the near future, I think it will go away.

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