New CarPC - this one for tuning - Page 6

RedGTiVR6 · 02-18-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JasonWW

Wow, I just now found this thread. Looking good there. Glad to see you really getting into the welding aspect. It opens a ton of creative ideas, huh?

We've been using the welder for the amp rack for ...3 years now. This is actually the 4th amp rack in this tubular style that we've built. First with Arc Audio amps, then Audisons, and now two racks with the Stegs. We didn't do the kicks for the longest time because it simply wasn't needed. Now that we've done them like this though we're VERY pleased with them.

Quote:

1. Are you still using the H701 for this season?

If so, are you wanting to swap to an all PC setup mid season?

If not, have you got your all PC ready to go?

For the beginning, yes. Seeing as how I don't currently have time to work with the tuning on the PC, it will stay in there for a few more weeks at least. Once I have time to mess with the tuning IN the car with the PC, then we'll make our decision. I have an 8" Trans screen sitting here waiting to go in once we've made our decision.

The new PC is in the car right now. Modified sound card and all. All we have to do to make the switch is undo the fiber optic cable and move the RCAs from the alpine to the sound card. Done. That was one of the initial intentions of this build. This will give us the chance to do an EASY A B comparison.

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2. Do the op-amps on the sound card have any effect on the fiberoptic digital out or only on the analog out?

It looks like your planning to use the analog outs on the sound card due to the RCA jacks your adding. So I'm a bit confused. Can you explain your signal chain for me? I'm obviously missing something basic.

The Op-Amps don't do anything for an optical signal. That's left to the Alpine at this point. Once we make the switch, it will be important. The way we have the car set-up right now is ensuring we won't miss any shows because we're stuck figuring out the tuning aspect of things. This allows us to gradually make the switch over to full tuning on the PC.

Hope this helps clarify!

JasonWW · 02-19-2007, 03:29 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

We've been using the welder for the amp rack for ...3 years now. This is actually the 4th amp rack in this tubular style that we've built.

Yes, what I meant was you seem to be using it more often and in more creative ways.

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

The new PC is in the car right now. Modified sound card and all. All we have to do to make the switch is undo the fiber optic cable and move the RCAs from the alpine to the sound card. Done.

Ah, so you plan to use the analog outputs of the card straight to each amp, huh? I was thinking you were going to built another device with outboard DACs, etc... So will you be able to use x-overs in the software to get each sound card output to play it's intended range or is that going to be left up to a x-over in the amp? I know you want it in the PC, but will that sound card do that?

Hey, I found this guy Christian who seems to know a great deal about this subject and pointed him to your USB vs. Optical thread.

RedGTiVR6 · 02-19-2007, 06:21 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by JasonWW

Ah, so you plan to use the analog outputs of the card straight to each amp, huh? I was thinking you were going to built another device with outboard DACs, etc... So will you be able to use x-overs in the software to get each sound card output to play it's intended range or is that going to be left up to a x-over in the amp? I know you want it in the PC, but will that sound card do that?

No, the DAC will replace the sound card eventually. There's no need for a sound card as we know it in a set-up like this.

And about the sound card being able to allocate the signal...that's one of the topics we discussed in the audio tuning on the PC thread for a few pages. If you hit up that thread, you'll see an area that lists Console and a few other programs. These programs allow you to route the signal to a specific output as well as through the different programs as desired.

Quote:

Hey, I found this guy Christian who seems to know a great deal about this subject and pointed him to your USB vs. Optical thread.

Cool, looks like he postsed!

JasonWW · 02-19-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

No, the DAC will replace the sound card eventually. There's no need for a sound card as we know it in a set-up like this.

So all the work on the sound card is just to use it for a short period of time and then toss it? I call dibs when you want to sell it.

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

And about the sound card being able to allocate the signal...that's one of the topics we discussed in the audio tuning on the PC thread for a few pages. If you hit up that thread, you'll see an area that lists Console and a few other programs. These programs allow you to route the signal to a specific output as well as through the different programs as desired.

Yea, I need to find and read that thread. I'm behind the curve.

RedGTiVR6 · 02-19-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JasonWW

So all the work on the sound card is just to use it for a short period of time and then toss it? I call dibs when you want to sell it.

Who knows how long the multi output dac will take to develop, or if it will ever happen. I've already decided to use the sound card in a HTPC once the DAC thing works out. Sorry!

JasonWW · 02-20-2007, 08:24 AM

OK, so correct me if I'm wrong. You are currently working on or have 3 solutions.

First, the H701. Sound quality is OK, but you want better.

Second, analog out from the modded sound card to the amps using PC to tune. Sound quality is better, but still not good enough.

Third, ditching the sound card altogether and using multiple USB DAC's and tuning on the PC. Should be tops in SQ.

Is that about right? If so, I'm wondering how much better the SQ might be between the H701 and the second unit I mentioned. As you know I have the H701, too and hopefully I can eek out some better SQ with Vista. The 3rd option might be best, but it doesn't exist yet. So I'm curious about the 2nd option. It may be the next step for me.

I think you said you'll have the 2nd option running in a few weeks and you will do some A B comparisons. Please let us know what you think of the 2, side by side.

PS, has anyone looked into upgrading the H701 to make it closer to the H900 as far as SQ? Perhaps some of the internal parts can be swapped for higher end (ie. more expensive) parts. I'm assuming you already looked into this. What are your thoughts on that?

RedGTiVR6 · 02-20-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by JasonWW

PS, has anyone looked into upgrading the H701 to make it closer to the H900 as far as SQ? Perhaps some of the internal parts can be swapped for higher end (ie. more expensive) parts. I'm assuming you already looked into this. What are your thoughts on that?

Yes. I've already got someone lined up to modify my 701 if the sound card option doesn't work.

JasonWW · 02-20-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

Yes. I've already got someone lined up to modify my 701 if the sound card option doesn't work.

Do you have a thread on it somewhere? I'd love to follow along and figure out what's what inside that brain.

RedGTiVR6 · 02-20-2007, 09:20 AM

nope. Since I'm not going to worry about doing it until I need to I haven't started anything on it.

JasonWW · 02-20-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6

nope. Since I'm not going to worry about doing it until I need to I haven't started anything on it.

That's cool.

Am I pretty close with the 3 examples I listed above?

RedGTiVR6 · 02-20-2007, 09:49 AM

on the second option, I don't know yet if the SQ is better but not good enough.

I've heard from others that have used the F#1 processor and are now using tuning on the PC...though not sure of their sound cards...and been told by them that the SQ is better.

I'm thinking that it should be better than the 701, and it would be great if it's better than the F#1.

XC-C30 · 02-25-2007, 11:25 PM

Ok, Red....

I'm starting to hate you more and more each day

(just joking). You're doing pretty much with your sound I'm dreaming of since I rolled in on the SQ-side of things. Too bad I'm far from technical. I can't even solder properly

Let alone soldering wires to such a small connection on a $200 card (I'll probably ruine.... (haven't bought it yet, but seriously considering to, because the ESI only has .5v outputs....

Have to admit I'm affraid of getting noise into the signalpath, because I'm going to try and fit everything in a 12x12x5 (inches) case

RedGTiVR6 · 02-26-2007, 07:41 AM

the way I look at it...if you're scared you'll never try anything new.

I never would know if I was too scared of ruining a $200 replacable card...

RedGTiVR6 · 02-26-2007, 09:02 AM

The car is playing now, only not with the sound card just yet. The goal right now was to get this set-up working then move onto the tuning side of things on the computer.

So...pics:

To mount the Be 5"s to the kick, we made a plate out of two sheets of plexi. The clear is 1/4" and the black is 1/8". The black plexi was cut to where the speaker could sink down. The spekaer was actually mounted to the clear plexi.

Mounting the 5" Be sub to the plexi plates. We also used some Black Hole seal to help seal the plexi against the carpet.

Showing the speaker wiring as it's terminated:

Mounted in the car with the new carpet throughout the car as well:

RedGTiVR6 · 02-26-2007, 09:12 AM

Pillars:

Taped off the dash since we would be test fitting:

After testing the speaker locations for a full day, we finally decided. Nick helped us with this portion of the install.
Marking the pillars prior to cutting:

The mounting plates for the 3" be and the Be tweeters:

With the cloth stretched to give us the shape. We used CA glue to allow for adhesion in this manner. Worked out perfect.

Wiring: