does NetStumbler actually CONNECT to access points?

**frugalmail** · 11-12-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by TimmyM

I have cable. my user agreement states that I cannot share my connection, which I don't.

This is another lameness on cable's part. A user pays for the bandwith, and they should be allowed to do whatever they want within those bandwith limits as long as it's not sending out tons of spam or hosting illegal content.

**Chairboy** · 11-12-2004, 02:55 PM

If a sprinkler is on and water is spraying the sidewalk, then is it illegal for a passing pedestrian to get wet? After all, the sprinkler owner is paying for the water.

The straight of the matter is that using an unsecured WAP to connect to the internet is not currently illegal. It may violate the service agreement the customer has with their ISP, but the wireless surfer is not the person violating the agreement, the customer is by not having secured their system with MAC filtering or WEP.

At some point in the near future, there may be laws passed to specifically make this illegal, but until then, the bare matter of using the WAP is within the constraints of the law. People like freestyler make regrettable assumptions.

**freestyler** · 11-13-2004, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Chairboy

At some point in the near future, there may be laws passed to specifically make this illegal, but until then, the bare matter of using the WAP is within the constraints of the law. People like freestyler make regrettable assumptions.

It's not assumptions. The fact of the matter is that you are accessing someone else's network which is ILLEGAL, that is already the case for someone if there were to say physically go into the office and plugin their laptop.

The act of receiving the beacons is not illegal of course, but the act of connecting to the AP is illegal because it is part of the network infrastructure and when you access any part of said infrastructure it is illegal, that's how it works for wired connections and has been attached to wireless connections also.

Leo Laporte (ex-TechTV ScreenSavers host) said quite a bit about his adventures in connecting to APs, that's one of the reasons why he isn't on the show anymore, a lot of people in the WiFi community sent emails to TechTV with concern. He did however have some interesting analogies that he loved to use, similar to what you stated Chairboy, he questioned the aspect of if someone leaves their trash can at the end of the driveway can you use it? But there is also the other side of the scope, just because someone is stupid and doesn't lock their house door at night does that give you permission to enter the home? The fact of the matter is that it can be prosecuted easily under "Theft of Service" which basically can cover anything, including your sprinkler analogy as dumb as it may be.

As for the airopeek, it's a WildPackets product, not cheap, $$$$$$

But it still won't do what those of you are looking for, the only thing that does what you want is the builtin Windows XP Zero Config client. All of these applications are setup to cycle through the 11 or 13 channels in your frequency, having them connect with stop the service from scanning.

**Chairboy** · 11-13-2004, 12:30 AM

Freestyler,

I'm sure you're well intentioned, but I suggest you familiarize yourself with the law before posting authoritavely on the subject. Accessing their computers themselves via the connection is against the law, but that's not what we're talking about.

Regards,

Chairboy

**0l33l** · 11-13-2004, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by freestyler

The fact of the matter is that it can be prosecuted easily under "Theft of Service" which basically can cover anything, including your sprinkler analogy as dumb as it may be.

Its not "Theft of Service" if someone leaves their door wide open and lets you walk in and look around. That's basically what you are doing.... you're not slowing down their connection because cable and DSL connections have lots of bandwidth to spare for web surfing. And if you surfing violates the cable user's terms of service then its not your fault because the user is sharing their connection on their own free will just by setting up a wireless AP.

**Tred** · 11-13-2004, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by fantomas

where do we find this...airopeek?

http://www.wildpackets.com/products/demos/apw

30-day demo

**freestyler** · 11-13-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Chairboy

Freestyler,

I'm sure you're well intentioned, but I suggest you familiarize yourself with the law before posting authoritavely on the subject. Accessing their computers themselves via the connection is against the law, but that's not what we're talking about.

Regards,

Chairboy

Actually simply connecting to the signal is illegal, I work with the wifi department at my University and yes we have checked with our legal department, if you connect to a network you aren't authorized to you can be prosecuted and charged with at least theft of service.

But I'm done with people here, the average person just doesn't get it.

**Chairboy** · 11-13-2004, 12:14 PM

If that means you're going to stop spreading disinformation, then great. Your post reminds me of someone coming back and saying 'and another thing...' 20 minutes after he's lost the argument.

**kai445** · 11-13-2004, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chairboy

If that means you're going to stop spreading disinformation, then great. Your post reminds me of someone coming back and saying 'and another thing...' 20 minutes after he's lost the argument.

Blah blah blah, stfu already.

* 18 U.S.C. § 1029. Fraud and Related Activity in Connection with Access Devices

"
(a) Whoever--

[...]

(7) knowingly and with intent to defraud uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses a telecommunications instrument that has been modified or altered to obtain unauthorized use of telecommunications services;

[...]

(9) knowingly uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses hardware or software, knowing it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization; or

[...]

(b)
(1) Whoever attempts to commit an offense under subsection (a) of this section shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense attempted.
(2) Whoever is a party to a conspiracy of two or more persons to commit an offense under subsection (a) of this section, if any of the parties engages in any conduct in furtherance of such offense, shall be fined an amount not greater than the amount provided as the maximum fine for such offense under subsection (c) of this section or imprisoned not longer than one-half the period provided as the maximum imprisonment for such offense under subsection (c) of this section, or both.

[...]

(c) Penalties.--

(1) Generally.--The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) of this section is--

(A) in the case of an offense that does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section--

(i) if the offense is under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (6), (7), or (10) of subsection (a), a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both; and

(ii) if the offense is under paragraph (4), (5), (8), or (9) of subsection (a), a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 15 years, or both;

(B) in the case of an offense that occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section, a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both; and

(C) in either case, forfeiture to the United States of any personal property used or intended to be used to commit the offense."

**Chairboy** · 11-14-2004, 12:01 AM

Sorry, Kai, but you might want to read the law you just cited. It doesn't apply to this and has never been excercised to go after someone using a WAP. Your statement is predicated on the idea that using a wireless access point is 'unauthorized', which is not the case.

That might change soon, but currently, it is not illegal to use an open access point..