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Thread: Easiest way to connect to random wifi network?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    If you need help in understanding that is not in my words, I refer you to this excerpt from an article that posed the illegal question from SecurityFocus:
    Which is exactly why people that knowingly share their cable based internet access with friends or neighbors have been done for 'cable fraud'. There are specific laws governing the data travelling over the cable network and they are not restricted to just TV data. Stepping back from that, you might be violating the terms of agreement with your cable or DSL provider and they have the right to terminate your service but they can only take criminal action against you under real laws such as the cable theft laws.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    Most large telcos and cable broadband companies have specific clauses in their TOS against doing this and consider it fraud if committing it.
    Again, they can consider it fraud all they like. It's only actually fraud if you break a real fraud law. Breaking the terms of their agreement is not sufficient although it will cost you your access if they find out. They could conceivably take civil action against you, but they can't take criminal action against you unless you break a law.

    Now in the case of war driving, you have no contract with whoever the supplier of the internet access for the network you've connected to. So they can't even take civil action against you. Hence the real concern is whether they can take criminal action. I have yet to see any 'letter of the law' that does make using an unprotected AP for accessing the Internet illegal for the person doing the accessing. The owner of the AP is a whole different question...

    There are far too many different definitions being bandied around in this thread which is one thing that's leading to a lot of confusion.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    Depending on the prosecutor and evidence, you can be prosecuted under un-authorized access and wiretapping laws that are federal (specifically The U.S. federal computer crime statute, Title 18 U.S.C. 1030, makes it a crime to knowingly access a computer used in interstate or foreign communication "without authorization" and obtain any information from the computer) and for the state of Maryland (under wiretapping/communicaiton laws).
    So this looks very similar to the law I actually looked at. In that case, the 'federal computer' literally meant a computer operated by a federal bureau. That puts a whole new slant on 'interstate and foreign communication', doesn't it. And it was also very specific about what constitues a computer. An AP didn't remotely match the description.
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairboy
    In a rare show of solidarity, I agree with kandyman wholeheartedly. The RIAA would LOVE it if people thought reselling CDs was illegal, but that would be another example of their continual efforts to screw the customer out of their legal rights.

    Hell, the RIAA would make it illegal if they could! If they continue to push nuisance law suits in they finally succeed in making case history, and continue to throw money at politicians, they might even succeed. People call Microsoft evil, but they're Santa compared to the RIAA.
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  5. #75
    Mac Car Moderator kandyman676's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairboy
    Actually, I'm really careful to say that I think cracking the wep MIGHT be illegal, but unlike you, I say that I'm not sure and that the law could indicate different.
    I was using hyprocrite in the sense of "well there is no law I know of, so its legal!" then "ohh, it might be illegal, but I don't know why either way and can't prove it" This goes back to the statement "Instead of making assumptions because you think 'it's PROBABLY illegal', you might want to actually learn the law before spreading disinformation." Thus a hyprocrite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairboy
    And again, the law is for accessing a computer, not an access point.
    Hmm, last time i checked, an access point is a telecommunication device for connecting to a network. Then inside of it, it has a little computer with an OS (like how a Linksys router uses a GPLed embedded linux) to assign the SSID, settings, DHCP, etc or even talk back to a central management console (like with Cisco APs). Thus its just like connecting to a computer with a wired network jack, instead you are doing it wirelessly directly to another computer. This breaks both unauthorized access state/federal laws and wiretap laws (in certain states).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairboy
    The securityfocus article you quote is very specific in saying that while you might violate a TOS, it's A: not YOUR TOS that you've agreed to and B: not the same as breaking the law.
    It is like breaking the agreement in most TOSs. However, it can be breaking the law depending on the TOS, especially cable broadband under cable theft laws. Again you are placing the other person at risk for your actions. I don't care if they know if its secure or not (unless you are in the state of New York, then its not illegal to connect to an open AP and because fault of the owner) Then if its severe abuse for the ISP's TOS, they involve law enforcement to investigate.

    However, this is a question of ethics and legality, not if you can get away with it or not. I know how easy it is, and how to do it. But I do not do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairboy
    I understand that you're trying to help, but misinformation is worse then no information.
    And I agree. However, where is the misinformation? I see none on my side. The majority of my points are can be proven by fact with quick Google searches. I cannot accept a "well, its a legal perigtory now, so I'll just do it anyway till I see a law or i'm caught" That's mis-information. I am demonstrating my point to be aware of the possible consequences you face. Every single wardriving site I see says the same thing I do: detect, but never connect to avoid any brass. Where are such ethics and laws for open AP connecting?

    I do find it funny though there is no response to my comments about getting your own celluar wireless connection vs. stealing it from someone else with or without permission.

    That anti-RIAA cartoon was funny as hell though.
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  6. #76
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    If you like, I can stop confusing you with facts. I see that your mind is already made up. You still can't cite a law that applies, and that's because it's not illegal. You can huff, and you can puff, but you can't blow that down.
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  7. #77
    Mac Car Moderator kandyman676's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arathranar
    Now in the case of war driving, you have no contract with whoever the supplier of the internet access for the network you've connected to. So they can't even take civil action against you. Hence the real concern is whether they can take criminal action. I have yet to see any 'letter of the law' that does make using an unprotected AP for accessing the Internet illegal for the person doing the accessing. The owner of the AP is a whole different question...

    There are far too many different definitions being bandied around in this thread which is one thing that's leading to a lot of confusion.
    I've hit your other points with my last post, but some of this I agree with:

    1)Wardriving is not illegal.
    2)I'm not against LEGAL, open, advertised access points, like the open network movement as long as it does not violate the user's TOS. I am against anything that is beyond that like the EFF.
    3)There are several Federal laws you can be prosecuted under, but it all depends on interpitation by a prosecuter/judge, and how you were using the connection.

    While Googleing, I found the following for new upcoming laws:

    New Hampshire - law in their House for making it legal to connect to an unsecured access point due to the provider's negligence

    I also suggest reading this whitepaper on wardriving and open access points:
    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=585867

    Pages 25 to 28 will be of interest, and directly thereafter.
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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    Hmm, last time i checked, an access point is a telecommunication device for connecting to a network. Then inside of it, it has a little computer with an OS (like how a Linksys router uses a GPLed embedded linux) to assign the SSID, settings, DHCP, etc or even talk back to a central management console (like with Cisco APs).
    True.
    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    Thus its just like connecting to a computer with a wired network jack, instead you are doing it wirelessly directly to another computer. This breaks both unauthorized access state/federal laws and wiretap laws (in certain states).
    Not true - at least the actual wording of a law I read very clearly excluded the AP as a 'computer'.

    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    Then if its severe abuse for the ISP's TOS, they involve law enforcement to investigate.
    That's not true. Severe abuse of a TOS is only illegal if it involves breaking the law. If you what you do isn't illegal, they simply cancel your service since there's no criminal activity.

    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    However, this is a question of ethics and legality, not if you can get away with it or not.
    Very true. We need to keep the two separate. I have every respect for your ethics.

    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    I do find it funny though there is no response to my comments about getting your own celluar wireless connection vs. stealing it from someone else with or without permission.
    I have that too. It doesn't stop me wanting to use any unsecured AP I happen to be near instead. Until someone points me at a law that demonstrably makes that illegal, I'll continue to try to do it.

    I say try since I still haven't found any decent software...
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    New Hampshire - law in their House for making it legal to connect to an unsecured access point due to the provider's negligence
    This gave me a dead link error.
    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    I also suggest reading this whitepaper on wardriving and open access points:
    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=585867
    I can't work out where the damn download link is for this. Can you save me from my stupidity?
    Edit - ah, it was just the CA link that was non-functional. The NY link worked fine.
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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    While Googleing, I found the following for new upcoming laws:
    New Hampshire - law in their House for making it legal to connect to an unsecured access point due to the provider's negligence
    So this supports our arguments that AP owner has the resposibility to secure their AP.
    Quote Originally Posted by kandyman676
    I also suggest reading this whitepaper on wardriving and open access points:
    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=585867
    Pages 25 to 28 will be of interest, and directly thereafter.
    I read all of this as stating that unprotected networks aren't covered by existing laws. All the cases listed (except for the one where the guy was acquitted in 15 minutes) involved some other crime that was clearly illegal.
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