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Thread: The legalities of wardriving.

  1. #181
    FLAC PURDooM's Avatar
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    Lol, ok heres how it breaks down:

    My neighbor has unsecured wireless, I have secured wireless, my friend wants internet. He goes on my neigbor for the fun of it, my neighbor catches on after a few weeks and calls the police, then I said my friend was using my network to cover my friends back.
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  2. #182
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    Wiredwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURDooM
    No, he was just an idiot. I guess he had some credit card fraud going on,
    Been quiet for a little.

    I read the Minnesota statute.

    I think the reason the cops got involved is the above. The credit card fraud. If that wasn't involved, the cops would have done nothing. I also do not believe that his actions violated the law, even if he admitted he connected.

    "609.891 Unauthorized computer access.

    Subdivision 1. Crime. A person is guilty of
    unauthorized computer access if the person intentionally and
    without authority attempts to or does penetrate a computer
    security system. "

    The key there is "computer security system", basically, HACKING. If the AP is open, there is no coputer security system to penetrate.
    2a and the definitions doen't apply because they do not defiune "computer security system".

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  3. #183
    FLAC samc's Avatar
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    Your neighbor was doing some credit card fraud, so your neighbor called the cops when he saw someone with a laptop and it appeared that they were connecting to the neighbor's network? Why didn't he walk into the police station and turn himself in, probably faster that way.

    I agree with the guy above.
    Mine needs to be updated.

  4. #184
    Maximum Bitrate BarryWoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b8bboi
    How about this scenario?

    I'm a complete noob to the wireless scene. I buy a Linksys router and set it to unsecured, wideopen mode. The default SSID is "linksys." I also set my laptop to automatically connect to the above mentioned "linksys" network.

    My next door neighbor also has a wideopen, unsecured linksys router with the SSID "linksys." He has a super duper hugeass wireless antenna that can overpower my tiny router.

    So I'm sitting inside my house using my laptop. My laptop sees both "linksys" networks but since my neighbor's has stronger signal, it decides to connect to his instead. So all the while I'm surfing the web, I'm unknowingly using my neighbor's network because there's nothing telling me that the "linksys" network I'm using is not mine. (I know you can check the MAC address but again, I'm a noob here).

    Is what I'm doing illegal?

    Yes. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Though if both parties are dumbasses then like what's been said over and over, "who's to know". Unless you use SBC, they actually have their people wardriving neighborhoods. If they find an open access point with one of their customers they shut down the internet connection. Though how they find out who's access point it is, without breaking any laws, is still a mystery.
    Failure is not an option....



    It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

  5. #185
    Maximum Bitrate BarryWoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredwrx
    Been quiet for a little.

    I read the Minnesota statute.

    I think the reason the cops got involved is the above. The credit card fraud. If that wasn't involved, the cops would have done nothing. I also do not believe that his actions violated the law, even if he admitted he connected.

    "609.891 Unauthorized computer access.

    Subdivision 1. Crime. A person is guilty of
    unauthorized computer access if the person intentionally and
    without authority attempts to or does penetrate a computer
    security system. "

    The key there is "computer security system", basically, HACKING. If the AP is open, there is no coputer security system to penetrate.
    2a and the definitions doen't apply because they do not defiune "computer security system".

    Michael

    So you're going to ignore this part then?

    Subd. 2a. Authorization. "Authorization" means with the permission of the owner of the computer, computer system, computer network, computer software, or other property. Authorization may be limited by the owner by:

    (1) giving the user actual notice orally or in writing;

    (2) posting a written notice in a prominent location adjacent to the computer being used; or

    (3) using a notice displayed on or announced by the computer being used.

    609.87 Computer crime; definitions.

    Subd. 2. Access. "Access" means to instruct,
    communicate with, store data in, or retrieve data from a
    computer, computer system, or computer network.
    Failure is not an option....



    It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

  6. #186
    FLAC ppgt94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryWoods
    Unless you use SBC, they actually have their people wardriving neighborhoods. If they find an open access point with one of their customers they shut down the internet connection. Though how they find out who's access point it is, without breaking any laws, is still a mystery.
    That's easy. You don't need to necessarily connect to and open AP to get the MAC address. It's already being broadcast. ISP's usually has a register of all their customers NIC and modem MAC addresses.

  7. #187
    Maximum Bitrate BarryWoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppgt94
    That's easy. You don't need to necessarily connect to and open AP to get the MAC address. It's already being broadcast. ISP's usually has a register of all their customers NIC and modem MAC addresses.

    That would work if they were using the access point as their cable/dsl modem. I know for a fact than my cable provider only sees my firewall's outside mac address. They can't see anything inside my network.
    Failure is not an option....



    It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

  8. #188
    Newbie Montanaja's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure wardriving is illegal in michigan.

    FRAUDULENT ACCESS TO COMPUTERS, COMPUTER SYSTEMS, AND COMPUTER NETWORKS (EXCERPT)
    Act 53 of 1979


    752.795 Prohibited conduct.

    Sec. 5.

    A person shall not intentionally and without authorization or by exceeding valid authorization do any of the following:

    (a) Access or cause access to be made to a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network to acquire, alter, damage, delete, or destroy property or otherwise use the service of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network.

    (b) Insert or attach or knowingly create the opportunity for an unknowing and unwanted insertion or attachment of a set of instructions or a computer program into a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network, that is intended to acquire, alter, damage, delete, disrupt, or destroy property or otherwise use the services of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network. This subdivision does not prohibit conduct protected under section 5 of article I of the state constitution of 1963 or under the first amendment of the constitution of the United States.


    History: 1979, Act 53, Eff. Mar. 27, 1980 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 326, Eff. Apr. 1, 1997


    © 2006 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

  9. #189
    Maximum Bitrate BarryWoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montanaja
    I'm pretty sure wardriving is illegal in michigan.

    FRAUDULENT ACCESS TO COMPUTERS, COMPUTER SYSTEMS, AND COMPUTER NETWORKS (EXCERPT)
    Act 53 of 1979


    752.795 Prohibited conduct.

    Sec. 5.

    A person shall not intentionally and without authorization or by exceeding valid authorization do any of the following:

    (a) Access or cause access to be made to a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network to acquire, alter, damage, delete, or destroy property or otherwise use the service of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network.

    (b) Insert or attach or knowingly create the opportunity for an unknowing and unwanted insertion or attachment of a set of instructions or a computer program into a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network, that is intended to acquire, alter, damage, delete, disrupt, or destroy property or otherwise use the services of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network. This subdivision does not prohibit conduct protected under section 5 of article I of the state constitution of 1963 or under the first amendment of the constitution of the United States.


    History: 1979, Act 53, Eff. Mar. 27, 1980 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 326, Eff. Apr. 1, 1997


    © 2006 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

    Wardriving is legal in all 50 states and DC. Wardriving has nothing to do with connecting. Connecting is however illegal in all 50 states and DC.
    Failure is not an option....



    It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryWoods
    So you're going to ignore this part then?

    Subd. 2a. Authorization. "Authorization" means with the permission of the owner of the computer, computer system, computer network, computer software, or other property. Authorization may be limited by the owner by:

    (1) giving the user actual notice orally or in writing;

    (2) posting a written notice in a prominent location adjacent to the computer being used; or

    (3) using a notice displayed on or announced by the computer being used.

    609.87 Computer crime; definitions.

    Subd. 2. Access. "Access" means to instruct,
    communicate with, store data in, or retrieve data from a
    computer, computer system, or computer network.
    No Barry, it is your legal reading comprehension that needs work.

    THe statue, once again,

    ""609.891 Unauthorized computer access.

    Subdivision 1. Crime. A person is guilty of
    unauthorized computer access if the person intentionally and
    without authority attempts to or does penetrate a computer
    security system. "

    K, let us read it like lawyers do, by breaking it into the "elements" of the crime

    A Person=That is pretty obvious, but it is kinda standard
    is guilty=needs to explanation
    of unathorized computer access=what they are guilty of
    if
    the person=not another person, by that person
    intentionally=that is a legal word, meaning with the intent to
    and without authority=also legal words in this statue, which are defined with what you quoted
    attempt to=he need not succeed, he is guilty if he attempts to
    or
    does=if he actually succeed
    penetrate=he must actually or try to penetrate
    a computer security system=a computer SECURITY system.

    In order to be guilty of an offense, you must satisfy all the elements of the crime. Even if the "offender" can be said to have not been authorized, HE DID NOT PENETRATE A SECURITY SYSTEM.

    But, even so, look at the requirements of the authorization definition,

    Subd. 2a. Authorization. "Authorization" means with the permission of the owner of the computer, computer system, computer network, computer software, or other property. Authorization may be limited by the owner by:

    (1) giving the user actual notice orally or in writing;

    (2) posting a written notice in a prominent location adjacent to the computer being used; or

    (3) using a notice displayed on or announced by the computer being used.

    Once again, notice the words of the definition. Of importance is the wording that "authorization may be LIMITED by the owner by

    giving actual oral or written notice
    posting it next to the computer BEING USED
    or if the computer announces it.

    Lets look at that again, there is not actual notice written or oral when someone access the "system"
    Certainly, there is nothing posted next to the computer I am using to access the network, and it does require that the notice be NEXT TO THE COMPUTER BEING USED, and, when one access the system, there is no display that says it is not allowed, or limiting access.

    So, the definitions don't even apply here. THere is no indication that the owner of the "system" restricted access, though perhaps some sort of encryption would indicate that access is limited, but more importantly, EVEN IF PERMISSION WAS LIMITED, since the user did not "pentrate a security system" there is no liability under the statute.

    You don't really think that a definition imposes some sort of liability, do you. Even if it did, the definition, as it were, if not violated because the "ways to limit authorization" were not followed.

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

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