Thread: Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1

Originally Posted by dMand

that Shifter Mouse is a great idea, do you have pictures of the internals when you disassembled it?

No, I didn't take any pictures of it when disassembled. It's pretty much what you'd expect; the little circuit board is held in by molded positioners. It doesn't appear that it would take a great deal of work to make it function. I did notice that it's built to pretty loose tolerances, and I don't know how it would hold up under the constant vibration of an automotive application.

I also considered adapting a game controlling joystick to replace the shift knob. Some of them have all sorts of buttons and switches that could be wired in. Some CH game joysticks might work well in a vehicle, especially if we could mount a little trackpoint button on the top. Some of these joysticks include force feedback (which we wouldn't need in the car), and that indicates they're built to withstand vibration.

After a lot of consideration, I moved the trackball-on-the-shifter idea to the back burner. I was considering about it as a replacement for a touchscreen, but, after playing with RoadRunner and Centrafuse, I want a front end with touchscreen, and am less fascinated with the idea of a mouse or trackball.

I see the mouse/trackball system as most suited for controlling Windows. My driving experience with the PC in the car indicates that I won't be using Windows much, except to read email on long trips. Since changing from an underseat-PC to a dash-mounted netbook, I now have a trackpad right there on the dash, and the mouse is redundant.

If it turns out that the mouse/trackball-on-the-shifter would add to the carPC experience, I'll jump back on the project. Right now, it's languishing in the box with lots of other parts from half-born or half-baked ideas.

I finished the RoadRunner configuration last week and I've been tolling around for the last few days in "test" mode... trying to work out bugs and letting the wife get used to it.

So far, so good. I am having intermitant power issues, and saturday my battery was completely dead... but it is a 3 year old battery, so I replaced it with an Optima Red Top and I should be good.

This weekend I'll be finishing up the power issues, but through the week I'm going to try to get roadrunner working as smoothly as possible. It is such a huge frontend, I really am amazed, but for someone who has no idea how to code... I am in the same boat as a lot in that I can only make small changes.

I am still trying to figure out how to get roadrunner to overlay my iguidance! I can get iguidance to run the same resolution, but I can't get RR functions on top of it. S far it hasn't been an issue because I still have my IG minimize button, but I need this user friendly for my wife's sake.

Originally Posted by Kalenth

I am having intermitant power issues, and saturday my battery was completely dead... but it is a 3 year old battery, so I replaced it with an Optima Red Top and I should be good.

The Optimas are terrific. If you decide to go to a second battery, the Yellow Top is the best choice, because it's a deep cycle battery, the kind used in uninterruptible power supplies and other operations where the battery may be drawn almost all the way down before recharging. If we drain a standard automotive battery down like that, it shortens the battery's life.

Originally Posted by Kalenth

I finished the RoadRunner configuration last week and I've been tooling around for the last few days in "test" mode... trying to work out bugs and letting the wife get used to it.

Through the week I'm going to try to get roadrunner working as smoothly as possible. It is such a huge frontend, I really am amazed, but for someone who has no idea how to code... I am in the same boat as a lot in that I can only make small changes.

After figuring out how to make JohnWPB's DigitalFX 4.0 skin run at 1024 x 600 -- thanks to his excellent help file -- I went back and tried the same move with monkeyracer's very clean and simple hAv1c+ skin. It works, somewhat, but there are still kinks in the system. Some screens display properly; some don't.

I'm getting there with RoadRunner, little by little by little, but this is a huge hassle when I compare it to the Centrafuse installation.

More RoadRunner vs. Centrafuse

I keep asking myself why I'm going through the agony of getting RoadRunner to play nicely with my PC. It isn't the PC itself; the problem is that I have an unusual resolution -- 1024 x 600 -- and that's making the screens display improperly.

The real question is this: if Centrafuse -- which installed without a single hitch -- can do it, isn't it likely that the problem is in my RoadRunner settings? I say "isn't it likely" because I'm not absolutely certain. All the evidence I see says that's the issue, so I keep hacking away, trying to make it work. And I keep saying to myself, "Why not just use Centrafuse, and get on with the build? Quit screwing around when you don't have to."

I don't have a problem with Centrafuse's price; I have Garmin Mobile PC, so I won't buy the Centrafuse Navgation option; that keeps the price at $125 (versus $250 with iGuidance). But I'd really like to be able to look under the hood of the software; RoadRunner affords me that view, where Centrafuse does not. I suppose I could take a look with the Software Development Kit (SDK) offered by Centrause, but I'm simply not current enough in my programming skills to make good use of it.

I haven't checked to see if using Mobile PC screws up things like the Centrafuse speedometer, though I suspect it won't; I imagine the speedometer just uses the GPS input; that may mean I'll have to split the input -- one to Mobile PC, one to Centrafuse. We'll see.

For a little while, anyway, the RoadRunner glitch-wrestling continues. With Christmas bearing down on us, the carPC and I are off on another road trip. It'll get more in-depth testing, and I'll get some time to play with front ends.

Road Trip Notes, Part 1

I'm on the annual Christmas trip, and the EeePC was in the dash for the entire 600 mile, 9-hour run. It did just fine, and had plenty of power for everything I asked it to do. The upgrade from 1MB of memory to 2MB has made a big difference in performance: multi-tasking doesn't seem to have much effect.

Netbook in the Dash
I had thought it would be perfect to have the EeePC netbook in the dash, and my early experience was very positive. But it has a few limitations, too; the biggest is that the keyboard and touchpad are too horizontal to be truly useful, because they're hard to see even in good light; at night, they just disappear. Thus, the "shifter mouse" idea and a steering-wheel-mounted keyboard would be ideal -- even more ideal than having them on the dash.

It occurred to me on the trip that it would be very nice to have a small light shining on the keyboard, possibly USB-powered. It might be possible to locate two in the dash -- one in each side of the PC area -- and shield them so they only light the keyboard. It would also be good to have them on a separate switch, and powered through the ignition switch so they'd be off when the ignition is.

Two other netbook mounting ideas come to mind:

• Separate the screen from the rest of the system, and mount the screen in the dash; the rest of the PC could mount elsewhere. It would be a slick trick to mount both so they can be easily removed and reunited if we want to do some maintenance, but that may not be practical or even realistic.
  
  
• Mount the screen with the PC attached, but make the PC portion movable, so we could pivot it up out of the way when we need to get to the climate controls or head unit. That would also let us conceal the unit a little when we leave the car; if we close the bottom up against the screen, it would be somewhat less obvious that there's theft-worthy stuff in the dash. I suspect this solution would be limited by cables hanging off the system; at the very least, there would be power and at least one USB cable to the (powered) hubs.

I'll have more road trip results tomorrow as my thoughts gel . . .

Road Trip Notes, Part 2 -- Mouse Control

Back in Post #300, dMand asked about the Finger Mouse (also see Posts #18 and 302). I had only used it in a desktop setting, so I brought it along to see how well it works while driving. Here's how it looks:



In the car, it works surprisingly well. I can leave my hand resting on the shifter and still control the mouse, even though my fingers are nowhere near the computer. That would be useful even with the touchscreen (which I haven't even ordered, yet). The idea of actually mounting it on the shifter has become much more interesting, although doing that is still pretty far down the priority list. Mounting it would make right-clicking very easy; it's a bit awkward hand-held. A Bluetooth version would be even niftier, because it would eliminate the cable.

Other options for mouse control would be:

• a touchpad like the Cirque SmartCat
• an Ergonomic touchpad
• a trackball
• a Space Navigator
• a small wireless "presenter" mouse with built-in trackball

So far, my favorite of these is still the Finger Mouse; the presenter mouse comes in second.

Then we have location to consider:

• the shifter is handy, but I drive a stick shift, so there's a lot of motion; anything mounted on it will have to take that abuse in addition to normal vehicle vibrations
• the armrest/console would seem to be a good location, but the Scion xB doesn't come with one (they're available as aftermarket add-ons, but they're minimal due to space constraints)
• I might be able to make some sort of add-on dash extension panel so I can reach the mouse/controller easily while my hand is on the shifter.
• the Scion xB's sound system steering wheel controls are mounted in a panel on the left spoke of the steering wheel, but the panel on the right spoke is empty; that would make a great place for a mouse/controller.

So far, my favorite of these ideas is the shifter; the steering wheel comes in second, but that probably limits me to wireless mouse/controller unit unless I can find a wireless keyboard with a mouse/controller built into it.

Road Trip Notes, Part 3 -- Garmin Mobile PC

I like Mobile PC, but -- as with every software package -- it does have its limitations. It isn't very good for just viewing a map to find a way around a traffic jam or a construction site; Microsoft Streets and Trips (I have the 2006 version) or Google Maps will be the tool to use for that, I guess.

Intersection search seems to be broken in the current build (5.00.50), though it worked previously. I'm hoping that's just a Garmin oops, not a feature loss, and that Garmin will fix that in the next update.

I haven't figured out a way to save the current location gracefully, but that's probably inexperience and a failure to carefully read the help material. It would be nice to program my regular fuel stops right into the trips, so "The Voice" doesn't start chattering about recalculating and returning to my route when I make a planned stop for fuel. Right now, I haven't figured out how to save the current location as a waypoint.

And I had one startling find; I was in a truck stop on I-75 in Georgia (Flying J at exit 201), and decided to make that a waypoint, since I stop there most trips. I looked it up in the Search feature, and Mobile PC told me Flying J was located several miles down the road. That was simply incorrect; it's a good reason to use the standard system of "trust -- but verify". On the way home, I think I'll try entering that address as a planned stop, just to see where Mobile PC takes me. That's not exactly an Adventure, but it'll be interesting.

I've notice that, even at maximum volume, the EeePC's speakers aren't loud enough to let me clearly hear the Mobile PC voice directions at high speeds. The Scion isn't a quiet vehicle (I suspect it's terrific for a relatively low-cost vehicle, but there's still a lot of wind noise in the cabin at highway speeds). PC sounds will probably get a lot clearer and louder when I route them through the vehicle's sound system.

Originally Posted by rdholtz

Road Trip Notes, Part 3 -- Garmin Mobile PC

I like Mobile PC, but -- as with every software package -- it does have its limitations. It isn't very good for just viewing a map to find a way around a traffic jam or a construction site; Microsoft Streets and Trips (I have the 2006 version) or Google Maps will be the tool to use for that, I guess.

Intersection search seems to be broken in the current build (5.00.50), though it worked previously. I'm hoping that's just a Garmin oops, not a feature loss, and that Garmin will fix that in the next update.

I haven't figured out a way to save the current location gracefully, but that's probably inexperience and a failure to carefully read the help material. It would be nice to program my regular fuel stops right into the trips, so "The Voice" doesn't start chattering about recalculating and returning to my route when I make a planned stop for fuel. Right now, I haven't figured out how to save the current location as a waypoint.

And I had one startling find; I was in a truck stop on I-75 in Georgia (Flying J at exit 201), and decided to make that a waypoint, since I stop there most trips. I looked it up in the Search feature, and Mobile PC told me Flying J was located several miles down the road. That was simply incorrect; it's a good reason to use the standard system of "trust -- but verify". On the way home, I think I'll try entering that address as a planned stop, just to see where Mobile PC takes me. That's not exactly an Adventure, but it'll be interesting.

I've notice that, even at maximum volume, the EeePC's speakers aren't loud enough to let me clearly hear the Mobile PC voice directions at high speeds. The Scion isn't a quiet vehicle (I suspect it's terrific for a relatively low-cost vehicle, but there's still a lot of wind noise in the cabin at highway speeds). PC sounds will probably get a lot clearer and louder when I route them through the vehicle's sound system.

You know what software is cool, The SPRINT GPS software for Pocket PC. Its directions are nice and so is its traffic routing. The display of the maps is very low grade though. i wish they made a PC version. Maybe its the placement of your GPS that is causing Garmin PC to be off? I noticed in my truck when I had all the wireless stuff in the front, the GPS was off by almost a block. When i moved it to the rear of the car it became much better. Then once I eliminated the handheld wireless mouse and 2 of the 3 wireless PS3 pads, the issue went away 100%, maybe something similar is happening to you? Also, your car is a box, I can imaging its going to be really loud when hauling a$$, hehe.

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

You know what software is cool, The SPRINT GPS software for Pocket PC. Its directions are nice and so is its traffic routing. The display of the maps is very low grade though. i wish they made a PC version.

I think Sprint offers two GPS packages -- one is Streets & Trips, and the other is TeleNav. I don't know which one you have, but the TeleNav is what Nextel uses. It's supposed to be pretty good.

You might take a look at Street & Trips 2009; you can download a fully-functional 30-day demo from Microsoft (the download is more than a GB). S&T is very good for planning and re-routing. I just didn't like its interface on the road because it doesn't provide a running ETA; you have to manually trigger a recalculation each time by telling it to calculate ETA from present location to destination. That's a lot of mousing around while driving, to do something that some other software packages -- like Mobile PC -- just display normally.

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Maybe its the placement of your GPS that is causing Garmin PC to be off? I noticed in my truck when I had all the wireless stuff in the front, the GPS was off by almost a block. When i moved it to the rear of the car it became much better. Then once I eliminated the handheld wireless mouse and 2 of the 3 wireless PS3 pads, the issue went away 100%, maybe something similar is happening to you? Also, your car is a box, I can imaging its going to be really loud when hauling a$$, hehe.

I guess I didn't make that very clear -- the problem was that Mobile PC thought Flying J was off down a whole different road, and showed it quite a distance away from its actual location. It just looked like a database glitch, and I thought I'd see where Mobile PC really thought the station was.

I hadn't even considered that the receiver location might be wacky. It sits in the center of the windshield on a no-slip pad right next to the fuzzbuster. I haven't noticed that it's wildly inaccurate; it's probably within 50 feet, anyway. But, based on your experience, I think isolating it is a very good recommendation.

I'm using the Pharos head that came with S&T 2006, and it's been very good. But it's inside-placement only. The BU head can be mounted outside on the vehicle's roof, and that's the best location by far. Unfortunately, the BU head is black, and my car is silver, so it'll be pretty obvious, and easily stolen if the jerk crooks don't mind just cutting the wire.

I wondered about adding the roof rack tracks to my car -- since it's a station wagon -- and locating the receiver right near one of the front mounts so it would be less obvious. I'm still considering that, but will only do it if I get the new BU head.

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Also, your car is a box, I can imaging its going to be really loud when hauling a$$, hehe.

Yeah, it's about as aerodynamic as a brick. Well, a brick with rounded corners. But it does haul a$$; I can cruise at 90 getting mileage in the high 20's, although, of course, I'd never think of doing that because it's illegal. With the stick shift, it's a lot of fun to zoom around in. I never thought I'd get a small car 'til my son got one. He loved it, and I went to look at them. Ordered one the same day -- had to order it because I wanted silver with a stick shift. No regrets.