Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1

**HiJackZX1** · 12-26-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by rdholtz

I think Sprint offers two GPS packages -- one is Streets & Trips, and the other is TeleNav. I don't know which one you have, but the TeleNav is what Nextel uses. It's supposed to be pretty good.

You might take a look at Street & Trips 2009; you can download a fully-functional 30-day demo from Microsoft (the download is more than a GB). S&T is very good for planning and re-routing. I just didn't like it's interface on the road because it doesn't provide a running ETA; you have to manually trigger a recalculation each time by telling it to calculate ETA from present location to destination. That's a lot of mousing around while driving to do something that some other software packages -- like Mobile PC -- just display normally.

Its TeleNav, and its good except in Miami the thing constantly is checking for traffic, and it says it too. Also it only chooses the fastest route, and no options to skip over tolls. So today when I went to pick up my dash from Nexson I had to pay 4 tolls. That really turned me off. So iGuidance is once again my favorite, lol.

I guess I didn't make that very clear -- the problem was that Mobile PC thought Flying J was off down a whole different road, and showed it quite a distance away from its actual location. It just looked like a database glitch, and I thought I'd see where Mobile PC really thought the station was.

I hadn't even considered that the receiver location might be wacky. It sits in the center of the windshield on a no-slip pad right next to the fuzzbuster. I haven't noticed that it's wildly inaccurate; it's probably within 50 feet, anyway. But, based on your experience, I think isolating it is a very good recommendation.

I'm using the Pharos head that came with S&T 2006, and it's been very good. But it's inside-placement only. The BU head can be mounted outside on the vehicle's roof, and that's the best location by far. Unfortunately, the BU head is black, and my car is silver, so it'll be pretty obvious, and easily stolen if the jerk crooks don't mind just cutting the wire.

I wondered about adding the roof rack tracks to my car -- since it's a station wagon -- and locating the receiver right near one of the front mounts so it would be less obvious. I'm still considering that, but will only do it if I get the new BU head.

I agree, it would get better reception on the top, but its hard to mount with such a thick wire. Also I am scared water will get in it. In the past I have bad experiences with electronics claiming to be water proof. My rear cam is still filled with water! I am surprised though, because the GPS is sitting ontop of a A/C, I would think EMI would mess it up, but I guess not. Also I made sure even though its behind a panel, that its right next to a window. I had to use a USB extension to get it back there though.

Yeah, it's about as aerodynamic as a brick. Well, a brick with rounded corners.

But it does haul a$$; I can cruise at 90 getting mileage in the high 20's, although, of course, I'd never think of doing that because it's illegal.

With the stick shift, it's a lot of fun to zoom around in. I never thought I'd get a small car 'til my son got one. He loved it, and I went to look at them. Ordered one the same day -- had to order it because I wanted silver with a stick shift. No regrets.

I actually love the old Scion, the new one, although bigger, just looks plain ugly. It like the person that designed it got drunk and stretched it out the fell on it, then Toyota went along with it. Its just so ugly, I automatically hate boxy cars, Jeep especially except the Wrangler, and at first I hated your version Scion, but people did some cool things with it, so I learned to respect it. The new one though, ugh, never, omg I think I just threw up in my mouth, thats how much I hate it!

PS: What front end did you end up with. I love CF to death, because it works so well when it comes to multiscreens and what not.

**rdholtz** · 12-27-2008, 02:05 PM

The New Scion xB

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

I actually love the old Scion, the new one, although bigger, just looks plain ugly. It like the person that designed it got drunk and stretched it out the fell on it, then Toyota went along with it. Its just so ugly, I automatically hate boxy cars, Jeep especially except the Wrangler, and at first I hated your version Scion, but people did some cool things with it, so I learned to respect it. The new one though, ugh, never, omg I think I just threw up in my mouth, thats how much I hate it!

I didn't like the new Scion xBs, either. It seems as if the new car has lost that boxy soul. But there are some great advantages to it -- like 50% more horsepower from the factory (it's now running the Corolla engine, which means there's a huge range of aftermarket add-ons available, including turbocharging), plus more interior room, more hauling capacity, and 5-bolt wheels.

But I'm still not real crazy about the new styling, and I haven't seen any tuner cars with mods that make it look any better. The new design weighs 600 pounds more, and the mileage is down 4 to 5 mpg.That puts it in the same fuel economy category as a lot of vehicles, like the Honda Element (which isn't any prettier -- it looks like a UPS truck with windows).

Despite my reservations, I did test drive a new xB with automatic trans. There's a LOT more zip to it. It has nicer ride -- probably due in large part to the added weight. And I bet the stick shift would add to the fun.

From the inside, it looks great. But the dash sucks for carPCs; it would be pretty hard to put anything more than a double-DIN 7-inch screen in there. You might be able to shoehorn in an 8-inch unit, but it looks like it would take some major work. Moving my carPC to it would likely be an exercise in frustration.

One thing remains the same. You can take home a new stick-shift Scion xB -- with cruise control and a nice assortment of toys -- for well under $17,000 MSRP. There's a Scion dealer in North Palm Beach -- Earl Stewart Toyota/Scion -- that doesn't charge any dealer fees (which are pure profit), so MSRP is your price out the door. For that kind of money, it's a whole lot of car.

So, if I have to replace the 2006 xB any time soon, I guess I'd go see Earl Stewart and get the new one. Then I'd add some larger-diameter wheels and tires to bump the fuel economy up. As for the outside appearance, it's sort of like being hanged by the neck until dead: it won't be long before you're used to it.

P.S. -- I like your signature, where you say you've simply stopped tracking the cost. So have I; the cost of this system in money is tough enough; the cost in time is just outrageous. But, what the hell -- some guys go to bars and strip joints; we go to the garage. It's closer and safer, though I suspect it takes more time, and maybe more money.

Still, the guys in bars only get hangovers for their investment, where we get nifty carPCs. That's a good deal.

**rdholtz** · 12-28-2008, 03:42 AM

Changing the Front End

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

What front end did you end up with? I love CF to death, because it works so well when it comes to multiscreens and what not.

Funny you should ask that. I installed the demo version of Centrafuse on my system, and it just went in and was ready for me to start adjusting the settings to what I wanted. There were no skinning issues; it displayed just fine on my 1024 x 600 screen. It looked great, but I wanted to see if I could get the same thing from RoadRunner.

I'd been working at getting RoadRunner to function gracefully on my system, and discussing here how much more adjusting and tweaking it was taking than the Centrafuse demo. In RR's defense, I think if I'd had a standard dimension screen, running 800 x 600 or 800 x 480, RR would have been far easier. As it was, my 1024 x 600 screen resolution was creating all sorts of skinning problems, even with the standard skin.

I'd reached the point where, if I considered the hours I'd spent troubleshooting and tweaking the RR installation, and how many more it would likely have taken -- especially if I give my own time any value -- then Centrafuse looked like a good investment. My son, Josh, made it easy to switch, because he gave me Centrafuse Navigation edition for Christmas. Wow!

Looking back, I probably didn't give Centrafuse a thorough enough test to discover all the things it does, because he and I both had a ball installing the Nav version on the EeePC, and looking at all the features that come with it. He's been running version 1.x of the Nav edition for a long time, so he doesn't have the new toys yet. He'll upgrade to the new version.

We installed right over the non-Nav demo version. We didn't have to do much configuration; I just plugged in the GPS, the external hard drive, and the external CD/DVD unit with the Centrafuse files on it. Centrafuse found them all -- it even knew what kind of GPS it was. There were several screens of preferences to set, but it was all pretty intuitive.

Instead of printing out the Centrafuse manual, we had it running on my other laptop, so we could refer to it on-screen and just walk through the settings. We were off and running.

Now I have to spend some quality time with the Centrafuse manual. I've already imported the small amount of music I have with me; 163 songs took about 30 seconds or less to catalog. I need to figure out how to make corrections to the information I have on the songs. Then, when I get back to Florida, I'll have a lot of CDs to rip.

So far, the installation has been easy and glitch-free, even with the 1024 x 600 screen that seemed to create so many problems for the RR skins. I'm way ahead of where I was with RR in a tenth of the time.

I think Centrafuse is about as feature-complete as I'll need for quite a while. I'll have more comments as I gain experience with it, but I can see right now that Centrafuse looks like a really good move.

**fixerofallthing** · 12-28-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by rdholtz

Changing the Front End

Funny you should ask that. I installed the demo version of Centrafuse on my system, and it just went in and was ready for me to start adjusting the settings to what I wanted. There were no skinning issues; it displayed just fine on my 1024 x 600 screen. It looked great, but I wanted to see if I could get the same thing from RoadRunner.

I'd been working at getting RoadRunner to function gracefully on my system, and discussing here how much more adjusting and tweaking it was taking than the Centrafuse demo. In RR's defense, I think if I'd had a standard dimension screen, running 800 x 600 or 800 x 480, RR would have been far easier. As it was, my 1024 x 600 screen resolution was creating all sorts of skinning problems, even with the standard skin.

I'd reached the point where, if I considered the hours I'd spent troubleshooting and tweaking the RR installation, and how many more it would likely have taken -- especially if I give my own time any value -- then Centrafuse looked like a good investment. My son, Josh, made it easy to switch, because he gave me Centrafuse Navigation edition for Christmas. Wow!

Looking back, I probably didn't give Centrafuse a thorough enough test to discover all the things it does, because he and I both had a ball installing the Nav version on the EeePC, and looking at all the features that come with it. He's been running version 1.x of the Nav edition for a long time, so he doesn't have the new toys yet. He'll upgrade to the new version.

We installed right over the non-Nav demo version. We didn't have to do much configuration; I just plugged in the GPS, the external hard drive, and the external CD/DVD unit with the Centrafuse files on it. Centrafuse found them all -- it even knew what kind of GPS it was. There were several screens of preferences to set, but it was all pretty intuitive.

Instead of printing out the Centrafuse manual, we had it running on my other laptop, so we could refer to it on-screen and just walk through the settings. We were off and running.

Now I have to spend some quality time with the Centrafuse manual. I've already imported the small amount of music I have with me; 163 songs took about 30 seconds or less to catalog. I need to figure out how to make corrections to the information I have on the songs. Then, when I get back to Florida, I'll have a lot of CDs to rip.

So far, the installation has been easy and glitch-free, even with the 1024 x 600 screen that seemed to create so many problems for the RR skins. I'm way ahead of where I was with RR in a tenth of the time.

I think Centrafuse is about as feature-complete as I'll need for quite a while. I'll have more comments as I gain experience with it, but I can see right now that Centrafuse looks like a really good move.

I am a fellow xB owner and a RR user. I did the skinning for the Carwings Dynamic skin and I have been using it on my Dell mini9 at 1024x600 and have zero issues. I was wondering what did not work for you so I can fix it for future users. I do not use the Dell in the car but I do use it for testing and such. I like Centrafuse as well but the cost has kept me away, as well as I am running 2 GPS softwares and 1 of them is Garmin and I did not see a way to do it in Centrafuse aas easily as it is setup in RR. I respect other users choices I just want to make RR as easy to use as possible.

**rdholtz** · 12-29-2008, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by fixerofallthing

I am a fellow xB owner and a RR user. I did the skinning for the Carwings Dynamic skin and I have been using it on my Dell mini9 at 1024x600 and have zero issues. I was wondering what did not work for you so I can fix it for future users. I do not use the Dell in the car but I do use it for testing and such. I like Centrafuse as well but the cost has kept me away, as well as I am running 2 GPS softwares and 1 of them is Garmin and I did not see a way to do it in Centrafuse aas easily as it is setup in RR. I respect other users choices I just want to make RR as easy to use as possible.

fixerofallthing, I'm glad to help. RoadRunner seemed really good; if it weren't for the configuration and skinning issues, I would probably have been happy enough with it.

As for pricing, RR wouldn't have been free for me. You and others who are contributing components of RoadRunner are already donating a great deal, so I can understand why the price of Centrafuse would be a consideration. But I'd have felt compelled to donate to Guido and the people who produced RR skins and other add-ons I used. I figured by the time I did the donations, I'd have a pretty good chunk of money in it, so the difference between RR and CF wouldn't be all that great.

Problems: Primarily, I had trouble getting RR to use 1024 x 600 resolution; it worked fine on some screens, but some other screens just wouldn't work right -- they were still 800 x 600. I tried the standard skin and DigitalFX 4.0. They had similar problems. I didn't try Carwings Dynamic. Neither did I just try to install at 800 x 600, get it working, and then move it to 1024 x 600. I wonder if that might have yielded different results.

Unfortunately, I uninstalled RR before installing the Centrafuse Nav edition, so I can't provide much in the way of specifics. I didn't uninstall the RoadRunner folder, so the settings I used may be intact. I'd be happy to provide whatever settings files you want to review.

RoadRunner wasn't mission-critical; my carPC didn't become useless because RR wasn't operating quite right. I could have gone onto the MP3Car forums and explained (1) my problems, (2) what research I'd done, (3) what I'd done to try and resolve them, and (4) what my settings were.

I didn't post my problems because I kept thinking I was just doing something wrong; I'm a computer jock, and I thought, "I've tweaked a lot of software; why can't I get this to work?" So I spent a lot time reading what others had written about issues. I got several ideas from the forums, and each improved the situation to some extent. But I'd love to have seen a compilation of issues and their resolution; to read all the information on RoadRunner is a daunting task. There are over 30 FAQ threads on RoadRunner, over 500 posts on RR configuration, and over 3,000 posts on the DigitalFX skin. Add on to that the 60+ posts on the Carwings skin, 200+ on Garmin Mobile PC, and 125+ on the hAv1c+ skin.

That's a huge amount of information to dig through. That mass of information needs to be distilled into a good, sound installation and tweaking manual that explains what all the settings do and how they interact. That's a lot of work because user documentation has to be thorough, or it doesn't work well; users get frustrated if it doesn't help them through their issues. It's particularly important to have in-depth documentation when there's no help desk to call.

For an example of a manual that seems to work well, download a copy of the Centrafuse manual. It's 68 pages long, including a huge number of screen shots. The text explains each screen and tells how to adjust settings. I haven't gotten all the way through it yet, but my system is up and running without a glitch.

I'd love to have had that instant success with RoadRunner. I was doing way too much tweaking just to get it to look "normal". I'd rather fabricate parts than tweak software, so I'm probably better off using Centrafuse.

But I'd be happy to help make RR better. Let me know how I can.

**HiJackZX1** · 12-29-2008, 10:13 AM

Nice thing about CF is that it is reaching RR as far as plug ins. Even people that are RR users are now adapting their plug ins to work on CF. Examples: Mitch and his UAS plug in for CF. He originally designed it for RR. Also Enforcer and his Gas plug ins and more. CF also has Web Radio plug in, TPMS plug in, and more. My main thing is that when you give the FLUX team a idea, they do everything to make it happen or they tell you flat out it cant be done. With all the help and features that FLUX has added and help me fix is way worth more then the $150.00 I paid for it. I remember during CF 1.XX, I asked to add better multi-screen support and in 1.47 it was added and implemented. That won me over instantly. Now their customer support has slowed a bit, but thats understandable because of the economic situation, they have to do other jobs to keep afloat.

**rdholtz** · 12-29-2008, 07:57 PM

Centrafuse

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Nice thing about CF is that it is reaching RR as far as plug ins. Even people that are RR users are now adapting their plug ins to work on CF. Examples: Mitch and his UAS plug in for CF. He originally designed it for RR. Also Enforcer and his Gas plug ins and more. CF also has Web Radio plug in, TPMS plug in, and more. My main thing is that when you give the FLUX team a idea, they do everything to make it happen or they tell you flat out it cant be done. With all the help and features that FLUX has added and help me fix is way worth more then the $150.00 I paid for it. I remember during CF 1.XX, I asked to add better multi-screen support and in 1.47 it was added and implemented. That won me over instantly. Now their customer support has slowed a bit, but thats understandable because of the economic situation, they have to do other jobs to keep afloat.

Yep, I'm seeing all sorts of stuff I can do with Centrafuse. Those plugins will be fun. For right now, I'll mostly use the Nav and music sections. I'll fool around with its many features, but I don't expect to get really serious about them until come after I get the EeePC's mounting area built. Right now the system sits pretty soundly in the dash, but it's more perched than mounted. When the mount area is complete, I'll invest the time to really get to know Centrafuse and start to use capabilities like backup camera and OBD. Both of those mean I'll spend more money, but this isn't a cheap sport.

It looks like CF's price has been all over the place. You paid $150. Josh paid $350 a few years ago (but gets lifetime upgrades), and mine was $250 (but I have to pay for upgrades).

I like the sound of an active support team that can get to the developers with user ideas. Developers can't please everyone, so, in tight times, they have to focus on the development projects that are most likely to produce revenue. "Revenue" means more than money, though; happy customers are a revenue stream as upgrades come along, and they're a source of the best kind of advertising: word of mouth. Happy customers tell others about the product, and post about it like you have.

I expect I'll join you.

**WraithJ** · 12-30-2008, 04:03 AM

Very nice sumup of the support, I agree with you on that side, but if u think abut there is great suport for RR, for example yesterday I was having issues with RR not locating my backround and I had a reply and solution from someone on here within roughly five hours, thats pretty good support!

Having said that I am a huge fan of centrafuse

WraithJ

**rdholtz** · 12-30-2008, 02:41 PM

Mount Up! -- Part 1

When Josh gave me Centrafuse Nav edition for Christmas, I was really pumped. And I'm equally pumped about what I'm giving him: a custom steel floor mount for the 17-inch screen he's putting in his Scion xB (it makes my 8.9-inch screen appear puny). His carPC has been without a display since his Elo 15" touchscreen was stolen, along with custom the mount we built.

I'll get back to Florida soon and get this mount finished; I think I can complete it over the New Year holiday. The base beam and the mounts are ready to weld, but the upper section has only progressed through the design stage.

I'll try to get pictures of the various pieces before they're tackwelded in place, and more as we progress. But I sometimes forget to take the pix; I get going on the product and forget to document the process. We'll probably do extensive coverage in his worklog.

Once it's all welded, it'll be time for sandblasting and epoxy paint; I'll use a satin black if I can't find a charcoal gray to go with the car's interior color. Then we can assemble and install. Yippee!

It's been a fun Christmas, and it isn't over yet . . .

**HiJackZX1** · 12-30-2008, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by rdholtz

Mount Up!

When Josh gave me Centrafuse Nav edition for Christmas, I was really pumped. And I'm equally pumped about what I'm giving him: a custom steel floor mount for the 17-inch screen he's putting in his Scion xB (it makes my 8.9-inch screen appear puny). His carPC has been without a display since his Elo 15" touchscreen was stolen, along with custom the mount we built.

I'll get back to Florida soon and get this mount finished; I think I can complete it over the New Year holiday. The base beam and the mounts are ready to weld, but the upper section has only progressed through the design stage.

I'll try to get pictures of the various pieces before they're tackwelded in place, and more as we progress. But I sometimes forget to take the pix; I get going on the product and forget to document the process. We'll probably do extensive coverage in his worklog.

Once it's all welded, it'll be time for sandblasting and epoxy paint; I'll use a satin black if I can't find a charcoal gray to go with the car's interior color. Then we can assemble and install. Yippee!

It's been a fun Christmas, and it isn't over yet . . .

ELO Touch Panels are so heavy, I dont understand why any one would steel that. Is he in FL too? Excuse my language but anyone that is dumb enough to steel that is an idiot. This is why I wish my car had flame throwers on the side of it, just burn them to death. God that makes me so mad. This is such a huge fear that I have thankfully, the PC and all its components are secure, but im scared they will rip out the screens thinking thats were all the components are, like a head unit ( I think thats what they thought your son's was, a whole system in a screen). Is the new one a touch screen also? ELOs are so expensive, im surprised he would put such a expensive screen in his car. Infact I wouldnt care if they stole the lilliput, but the 15" im so scared because its hard to find and because of the upgrades im doing to it.

PS: I think I am going to darken my tints.