Thread: Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1

Originally Posted by MeeM

Come to think of it, I might be thread-jacking with all of my talk about deciding between the Eee PC and mini-ITX. Apologies rdholtz

I'll stick with what I said earlier: if I started talking about it, it's pretty hard to accuse you of threadjacking.

What you wrote is pertinent to an ongoing discussion about choosing between a netbook and a full-blown PC for your vehicle. I had to go through the same decision process you're discussing, and others are going through it for themselves. We're just iterating and reiterating the bases for the decisions we make.

If someone starts posting about the great new purple and chartreuse color scheme on their hotrod Yugo , I'm probably going to wish they'd find another forum for that topic.

But you're right on target, and providing good information; keep it up.

Low-Cost CarPC

The cost and size of systems keeps shrinking. If the current crop of netbooks doesn't interest you, there's the MSI Wind barebone system running the Intel Atom 1.6 processor (the same as many current netbooks) and Intel 945GC and ICH7 chipset. It's about $140-$145 delivered at ProVantage, TechBargains, and can be found at other places like NewEgg and Tiger/CompUSA. The unit has an SD/MMC/MS/XD card reader, 6 USB ports, 8 audio jacks and an Ethernet port. If we load it up with a 250GB SATA hard drive, 2 GB of DDR2 memory, and a DVD R/W, it might come in a little over $300 with shipping. Add Linux or XP and the touchscreen of your choice, and you have a carPC for surprisingly small money.

The case on this unit is small, too -- only 2.5 inches high, 12 inches wide, and 10.25 inches deep (65mm x 240mm x 300mm). That would fit well under the seat of most cars, meaning we don't need to stick the computer clear back in the trunk, but can instead keep it in the passenger compartment, where it can enjoy less-extreme temperatures and steady airflow.

Another advantage of this unit is that, although it's intended as a desktop unit, power is supplied through an external power brick, so we don't have to convert a 110V/220V PSU; 12v power would be simple.

If you're looking for an off-the-shelf non-laptop solution with decent power on a small budget, this could be a good find.

Originally Posted by rdholtz

Low-Cost CarPC

The cost and size of systems keeps shrinking. If the current crop of netbooks doesn't interest you, there's the MSI Wind barebone system running the Intel Atom 1.6 processor (the same as many current netbooks) and Intel 945GC and ICH7 chipset. It's about $140-$145 delivered at ProVantage, TechBargains, and can be found at other places like NewEgg and Tiger/CompUSA. The unit has an SD/MMC/MS/XD card reader, 6 USB ports, 8 audio jacks and an Ethernet port. If we load it up with a 250GB SATA hard drive, 2 GB of DDR2 memory, and a DVD R/W, it might come in a little over $300 with shipping. Add Linux or XP and the touchscreen of your choice, and you have a carPC for surprisingly small money.

The case on this unit is small, too -- only 2.5 inches high, 12 inches wide, and 10.25 inches deep (65mm x 240mm x 300mm). That would fit well under the seat of most cars, meaning we don't need to stick the computer clear back in the trunk, but can instead keep it in the passenger compartment, where it can enjoy less-extreme temperatures and steady airflow.

Another advantage of this unit is that, although it's intended as a desktop unit, power is supplied through an external power brick, so we don't have to convert a 110V/220V PSU; 12v power would be simple.

If you're looking for an off-the-shelf non-laptop solution with decent power on a small budget, this could be a good find.

I like that system.... I could use a few of those for servers for my house!

Originally Posted by MeeM

Great info rdholtz. That's pretty much how my system is going to be setup. I'll be using an Intel D945GCLF2 motherboard, possibly 1GB RAM to start off with, and maybe a 40GB or 60GB laptop hard drive. I'll also use an external slot-loading DVD-RW drive which will hopefully fit under the LCD so it will be easy to load discs.

And I'll be installing it under the driver's seat, so it saves me the bother of having to run all those cables down the length of the car, so to speak.

When you buy the memory, go for 2GB. The difference in price between a 1GB DIMM or SODIMM and a 2GB unit will be very small, but the difference in performance will be significant. It'll be the best money you could spend; nothing adds speed to a PC like more memory.

Unless you already have the hard drive, bigger is better, and faster is better. Going with a laptop drive is good because they have some impact resistance built in; desktop units are intended for stationary use, where laptop units are expected to be bumped around more in operation.

Use a good quality, powered USB hub. Cheap ones can be flaky and frustrating, probably because they're built to standards that don't take the vibrations of the vehicle into account. They can get unreliable; the good ones perform well for a long time.

USB is great because it's universal and handy, but it's a less-than-perfect connection system for a vehicle because standard USB connections have no retention screws. There's a way to fix that: once the system is installed, a little blob of (removable) hot glue at each USB joint works well.

That same hot glue works on PCI and PCIe cards to keep them from vibrating out; in fact, it works on just about anything that doesn't have clips. I've seen custom systems where hot glue blobs were used to lock the sound connector, IDE cables, and header connectors to the motherboard. The glue kept them from loosening in service and resulting in intermittent or complete component or system failures.

Originally Posted by MeeM

Ahh k ... very valuable info. I'll get 2GB RAM then

I've just bought a 2.5" Seagate 120GB SATA HDD. The motherboard was out of stock again, so this time I placed an order and paid a deposit. Hopefully it will arrive by Tuesday next week.

I've got a powered USB 2.0 hub so I can mount that in the car. I won't have too many USB peripherals to begin with, but in time I'll have a GPS receiver, bluetooth dongle, etc. so it's best that I install the hub properly when I'm putting the PC in. The hub has a DC socket so I'll have to run a line from that to my power supply, right? This brings me to the next question: I plan on getting an M2-ATX. Sure, I've read a few threads about people having some trouble with it, but I've seen a lot of threads about trouble with M4-ATX. The M2-ATX seems quite affordable for me and it's got the anti-thump feature and amp turn-on wire. With 160W, I'm sure it will be able to power my system easily. Any thoughts on this?

So here's my system thus far:

Motherboard and CPU: Intel D945GCLF2 with Integrated Atom 1.6Ghz processor
Memory: 2GB DDR2 667Mhz
HDD: Seagate 120GB SATA
PSU: possibly M2-ATX?
LCD: possibly Lilliput 629 GL 7" with LED backlighting or some sort of TMR LCD
Misc: powered 4-port USB 2.0 hub.

Any suggestions/cautions/warnings/problems?

I agree, especially since SODIMM Ram is dirt cheap for some reason. I recently bought two 2 GB sticks, each for $20.00 dollars. Also the RAM had the abilty to switch between 667, 533, and some other frequency. My old RAM only ran at 667 and after 1 year of use, just died with no warning. Just remember, more RAM means longer hibernation time, but since you guys didnt go overboard with devices, it shouldnt be too noticable.

When it comes to hubs, I have had bad experiences. Everyone has said to run it off the 5v rail on the PSU, but when I did so, the PC didnt turn on correctly and if it did the hub didnt work right. I think its because of the way my MoBo handles power managment for USB. Anyways I simply bought a 100watt inverter the size of a pocket pc and called it a day. The M2-ATX is a very stable PSU, when I had it on my VIA board, I had no issues. I upgraded to the OPUS 320 for obvious reasons (check my worklog), but for you it will work. I have read bad things about the M3 and M4. If you want, you can get a OPUS 250, only bad thing is, they are large. When I put my OPUS 320 over my MoBo, it covers half of it. The OPUS 250 is the same size.

Originally Posted by MeeM

Ahh k ... very valuable info. I'll get 2GB RAM then

I've just bought a 2.5" Seagate 120GB SATA HDD. The motherboard was out of stock again, so this time I placed an order and paid a deposit. Hopefully it will arrive by Tuesday next week.

I've got a powered USB 2.0 hub so I can mount that in the car. I won't have too many USB peripherals to begin with, but in time I'll have a GPS receiver, bluetooth dongle, etc. so it's best that I install the hub properly when I'm putting the PC in. The hub has a DC socket so I'll have to run a line from that to my power supply, right? This brings me to the next question: I plan on getting an M2-ATX. Sure, I've read a few threads about people having some trouble with it, but I've seen a lot of threads about trouble with M4-ATX. The M2-ATX seems quite affordable for me and it's got the anti-thump feature and amp turn-on wire. With 160W, I'm sure it will be able to power my system easily. Any thoughts on this?

So here's my system thus far:

Motherboard and CPU: Intel D945GCLF2 with Integrated Atom 1.6Ghz processor
Memory: 2GB DDR2 667Mhz
HDD: Seagate 120GB SATA
PSU: possibly M2-ATX?
LCD: possibly Lilliput 629 GL 7" with LED backlighting or some sort of TMR LCD
Misc: powered 4-port USB 2.0 hub.

Any suggestions/cautions/warnings/problems?

That all sounds good. I have an M2-ATX, and it worked fine for the short time I ran it inside my custom case. I haven't installed it for the EeePC, but it's on my list of projects. I like that it separates the power rails and lets me handle everything from a single power supply. With the EeePC running 3W for both PC and screen, I have a lot of power left over for the HDD, DVD, and accessories.

Originally Posted by MeeM

The next thing I'll need to get is my LCD. I don't want to skimp on the LCD even though I'm on a tight budget because the LCD is essentially the car PC when it's all complete. If the LCD can't be seen easily, then the car PC is effectively useless.

Well, I see it from a different angle: the LCD is primary interface, and it isn't all-or-nothing. I wouldn't say "effectively useless"; rather that it's "less functional".

There are two factors for me: size and brightness. One of the reasons I chose the EeePC 901 was its screen size. Within reason, I thought size was the greater importance. The 7-inch screens, at 800 x 600, were just too small to suit me, especially for mapping, and the 8.9-inch EeePC, at 1024 x 600, fit the space I had perfectly. It seemed bright enough, I got almost 30% more screen real estate.

You've chosen screen brightness to be more important than size. That's purely an individual decision. After 1200 road miles in Florida and Georgia daylight, plus night operations, I'm happy with the EeePC's brightness; part of that is because I have it positioned so direct sun can hardly touch it, and part is because all my windows are tinted.

On the other hand, Josh has an Elo that I swear could be used as a searchlight. It's absolutely visible with direct sun on it; he has to turn the brightness way down at night. Transflective screens get great reviews, but they cost more than an entire EeePC, and I simply didn't see the gain as being a good investment when all I got was an 800 x 600 screen.

From a time standpoint, you still may be doing this the wisest way: get a 7-inch screen up and running, and upgrade from there, if an upgrade even is necessary. I've been on my project for a year, now, including the switch from modified desktop to netbook. I have a functioning system, but the project is far from complete. Although I'm happy with the decision, I know switching in midstream to the EeePC has certainly moved the completion date way back.

I still believe that, for me, the wisest way from a money standpoint is to integrate a netbook. But, in the long run, all we're deciding when we start out is which direction to head; we're still going to have to solve a raft of problems, make lots of small decisions, and do at least some fabrication. And none of us are going to get out very cheaply.

Luckily, it's a clean sport, and it keeps us out of trouble; our significant others always know where to find us: in the garage, or on MP3Car.

The important thing is that you enjoy the journey. It's even better if you like the destination.