Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1

**rdholtz** · 03-20-2009, 12:18 PM

CarPC Keyboard, Part 5 -- OMG, I Had This All Along?

Even though I found the Brando keyboard to be just about right, I had planned to keep looking around for a while to see what else might be available, and I've already ordered the little Bluetooth unit to play with. But I was cleaning up at our store, digging through our backstock, when I found an unused Versapoint VP6210 RF keyboard and receiver.

It was unboxed, but the instruction booklet is still with it, as are the original batteries. I remembered it was a castoff from a corporate install I'd done several years ago, long before the carPC bug bit me. Now I have a place to use it. It's a good bit bigger than I'd like, at 15.3 x 7 inches, but it has an integrated Versapoint mouse, like a trackpoint with a fat head, and low power usage on 4 AA batteries. It's wireless, which is what I want, and my cost is $0, which is a very attractive price, far lower than the $150 price online.

After some testing, I found two things of note:

It types just fine; the keys are big enough and well-placed, and the key action is good. I can type pretty fast on it.
The mouse function has somewhat slower response than I'd like, but, once I attach it to the carPC, I'll see if I can fix that in the Windows Control Panel.

I don't think I want to spend $150 on a keyboard like this, but we don't have to; this Versapoint unit appears to be effectively the same as the SpecResearch 2.4 GHz RF Wireless Mini Keyboard with Optical Trackball that's available at the MP3Car Store for $72.99, and similar to an Adesso unit I've seen. The only difference is that the Versapoint has a "Versapoint mouse" instead of a trackball. I'm not sure why having a slow-responding mouse makes the Versapoint worth twice as much as the same keyboard with a trackball. I think, if I were buying this, I'd go with the one at the MP3Car store.

But I don't have to buy it. So, despite the bigger size than I'd like, and the possible slow mouse issue, the no-cost price of the Versapoint makes it too attractive to pass up. It needs a home in the car, so I'll have to figure someplace to store it when not in use. My first ideas are under the passenger seat, or perhaps even in a pocket behind the passenger seat.

Between the Versapoint I found and the mini-sized Bluetooth unit I ordered, it looks like my wireless keyboard problems may be solved -- at least for a while. I'll follow up later with a report on the Bluetooth keyboard.

**rdholtz** · 03-22-2009, 07:10 AM

Another Shift in Direction

When I ordered it, I thought the EeePC would be a perfect unit for me because it has plenty of power, and I could take it in and out of the dash at will. It's done everything I've asked of it, but I'm still uncomfortable with my layout.

In post #422, I wrote about deciding whether I should build the EeePC's LCD monitor into the dash, or leave the entire EeePC sitting on its shelf in the dash. The longer I work with it sitting on the dash instead of built into it, the more I realize that taking it out and putting it back isn't something I'll want to do very often; it's too much of a hassle. I just want the touchscreen built into the dash. I'd rather have my regular laptop when I'm out of the car, and have an in-dash installation that's permanently mounted.

There are two other really good reason for wanting this change:

Having USB, GPS, audio and power cables running all over the cockpit is driving me nuts; it's like driving Dr. Frankenstein's breadboard. I want them permanently installed, or at least much less visible. I want the carPC to be an integral part of the car, not the apparent focus of the vehicle. I want it to look OEM.
Bugbyte, FiberOptic and others are avidly blogging the way to iPhone/carPC integration or iPhone-as-carPC, and I think that seems like a fascinating route, too. So they're pointing to another path I can take with my current setup: build in the screen, and keep the rest separate from it, for now. That would let me drive it from the EeePC or another PC, or from the iPhone if that becomes a viable option in the near future.

So I want my touchscreen built in. And, although I bought the EeePC for my carPC, I don't want to tear it apart to get its screen for the dash. That means it's time to modify my direction -- again. Time to choose a touchscreen.

**GizmoQ** · 03-22-2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by rdholtz

Another Shift in Direction

When I ordered it, I thought the EeePC would be a perfect unit for me because it has plenty of power, and I could take it in and out of the dash at will. It's done everything I've asked of it, but I'm still uncomfortable with my layout.

So I want my touchscreen built in. And, although I bought the EeePC for my carPC, I don't want to tear it apart to get its screen for the dash. That means it's time to modify my direction -- again. Time to choose a touchscreen.

I hate to say I told you so...
It takes compromise to use a removable system. I'd say 90% of folks realize right away they don't it that way, and the next 9% learn like you did. I'm a member of that last 1% that accept the necessary compromises, but I cheated by putting a desktop dock in my dash - one latch in and out, no visible cables, cords, wiring; and best of all 10" touchscreen all-in-one computer.

I hear there's a touchscreen NETBOOK version coming this May, but they still haven't figured out they need a full-featured dock to really unlock the potential of the tiny workhorses.

**rdholtz** · 03-23-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by GizmoQ

I hate to say I told you so...
It takes compromise to use a removable system. I'd say 90% of folks realize right away they don't it that way, and the next 9% learn like you did. I'm a member of that last 1% that accept the necessary compromises, but I cheated by putting a desktop dock in my dash - one latch in and out, no visible cables, cords, wiring; and best of all 10" touchscreen all-in-one computer.

I hear there's a touchscreen NETBOOK version coming this May, but they still haven't figured out they need a full-featured dock to really unlock the potential of the tiny workhorses.

You've built a pretty slick system so you can drive many cars and share a single computer among them. I suspect mine would have worked better with one of the not-yet-released tablets in a configuration similar to yours. I thought seriously about just setting the EeePC on a pylon and making it completely external to the dash, but there are some serious negatives to the external mount; the one that I couldn't get past was the exposure to theft.

I still think Bugbyte, FiberOptic and others are heading into the future of car computing with their iPhone work. And with new, heavy-duty Bluetooth built into the iPhone, it'll get even better. There are still plenty of flies in the ointment, but it looks pretty fun, and I expect I'll join in sooner rather than later. It would be pretty extraordinary to have an iPhone dock in my car -- even if it's a virtual dock with a Bluetooth connection -- so my iPhone traveled with me instead of a tablet.

Meanwhile, I want mine to just work and not look like Medusa's head. The touchscreen will help take me there.

**rdholtz** · 03-24-2009, 07:12 AM

Another Shift in Direction -- The Rest of the Story (R.I.P, Paul)

I can take many paths with my build, but I've narrowed it a lot by committing to the touchscreen in the dash. I figure I can choose among three approaches:

Go with the touchscreen and base the system completely off the iPhone. Neat idea, I think, but I also don't believe the software and hardware are here yet to make that easy; I'd bet they're on the way, though. This would be my long-term solution, but it'll have to wait for now. No matter what happens, I expect to replace my Windows Mobile phone with an iPhone when the new models come out, so I'm ready as iPhone carPCs become a reality.
Keep the EeePC as the core of the system. This is the way I'm approaching it right now.
Re-purpose the EeePC and buy the rest of the components for a dash-mounted system. This is where I may head in the near future.

I've been thinking about #3, and considering what I'd use for a component-based build. Here's one way I could lay it out:

Double-DIN ShockNet chassis kit from blk02si (worklogs on the chassis systems are here and here) @ $85 shipped.
Intel D945GCLF2 Mini-ITXmotherboard with Atom 330 Dual-Core processor and 945 graphics from Buy.com @ $80 shipped.
2GB DDR2 667 memory SODIMM from Buy.com @ $31.23 shipped.
8-inch touchscreen LCD panel (more about that coming up).
60GB SATA 2.5-inch hard drive (on hand) + 60GB IDE 2.5-inch USB hard drive for music (on hand)
M2-ATX power supply unit (on hand).
Versapoint wireless keyboard with onboard mousestick (on hand).

Going this route, the cost beyond the touchscreen is less than $200 to make the transition. And I can cut it down to just $111 if I build my own chassis; it wouldn't be as pretty, but it would cost me only my time. After spending that money, I'll still have a fully-functional EeePC as well as a carPC.

It makes the component route look pretty good . . .

**rdholtz** · 03-25-2009, 11:43 AM

Choosing a New Touchscreen -- ** UPDATED **

The EeePC's 8.9-inch screen has been big enough to use comfortably on the road, so I expect an 8-inch will be similarly fine. For now, I just want it to display the output from the EeePC's VGA port.

The only real question has been whether I'm willing to give up 1024 x 600 to go to 800 x 480. Surprisingly, after seeing Centrafuse at various resolutions, it doesn't seem that lower screen resolution will make much difference to me.

When I review the available touchscreens, I like the look of the Lilliput 889GL-80NP/C/T, a relatively new 16x9 LCD touchscreen with LED backlighting, 800x480 resolution, and what appear to be pretty good specs.

I looked at several alternatives, and two others stood out. The Shark 8-inch 800x600 screen from Gooddeals18 is a 4x3 model that would be too tall for the space available; although it costs about $40 less, it apparently isn't as bright as Lilliput. The 7-inch MiMo UM-740 USB-only touchscreen monitor I mentioned in post #428 would be good, but it would be dark until Windows gets its USB drivers loaded; that means no boot-time messages, and no troubleshooting when it's the only monitor. So the Lilliput 889GL is my choice.

Since there's no such thing as too many fit-checks, I got a picture of the Lilliput, printed it out at actual size, and checked its fit in the car. It appears that the Lilliput will fit just fine, with some modifications to the dash bezel, so I placed my order with Carmate1 on eBay (eBay Store is MyCarmate. Cost was $219.95 with free ground delivery.

I thought at first that I might have been tricked by this vendor, but, in the end, the deal worked just like it was supposed to. No trick from the vendor.

I've bought and sold on eBay for years, and I'm pretty comfortable with the process. When I went to order the Lilliput, I chose a Power Seller with over 1300 sales, and an approval rating of 100%. Those numbers should mean I can feel pretty safe. The Buy It Now price was $219.95. Shipping was listed as "Free Ground Shipping", and Insurance was "included in S&H". I bought it, and paid with PayPal. Except for the usual confirmation from PayPal, I heard nothing for several days.

I finally emailed, and the in the reply, Carmate told me he only got $219.95. It turns out he wanted a Handling Fee of $3.00. I never saw the $3.00 fee in the PayPal transaction. Now, in all honesty, it may have been there, but I've used PayPal lots of times, and I'm pretty alert to all the charges. I never saw that one.

I replied that I was only supposed to send $219.95. A couple of days later, he hadn't answered, so I went online at another of his auctions for the same product, clicked on Buy It Now, and got the detail page that clearly showed no other charges. I sent him a PDF of that page stating that insurance is included, and UPS Ground Shipping is free, and the total price is $219.95.

I got no response. After a few more days, I gave in and sent $3 more via PayPal. No sense being a jerk over 3 bucks. I have to assume I just missed the charge, because a vendor can't go in and change a deal after it's done. My bad.

I still got no response. I followed up the second payment with an email through eBay providing the Item Number of the sale and the Transaction IDs of the payments, just to be sure there's no confusion.

A day later: no response -- or so I thought. But I got home that night, and there was a UPS Delivery Attempt notice on the door. After a mistake on my part in redirecting the package, I finally got it. It was shipped the same day I placed the order.

It turns out I was not tricked by the vendor -- he did his part. I think he could have communicated better, but he shipped fast, he shipped exactly what I ordered, and the shipment came directly from Lilliput. The end result: I'm a happy eBay buyer, and the seller gets good feedback.

Installing the Lilliput into my dash will leave my options open on integrating the EeePC as the carPC, or replacing it with a component build or even an iPhone. It only resolves part of the cables-everywhere issue I find frustrating, but it sets a direction and gets the project moving ahead.

Once the Lilliput arrives, I'll decide how to configure the bezel. If possible, I want to build the whole monitor into the dash, without uncasing it. My experience with uncasing has been less than stellar: I uncased a working Lilliput 10.4-inch touchscreen and never got it to work again.

For now, I'll see if I can figure out how to mount the Lilliput. I'm considering fastening it to the bezel, so, when I remove the bezel, the double-DIN chassis behind the monitor is open to me. Once I get the monitor, I'll see if that seems like a good plan.

**skeet2331** · 03-25-2009, 02:34 PM

It looks to me like he will no longer have 100% seller rating.

**rdholtz** · 03-25-2009, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by skeet2331

It looks to me like he will no longer have 100% seller rating.

Well, If I were 100% sure it was him trying to snooker me, I'd have no problem dinging him. But there's always the possibility that I just missed the charge. I think I'm pretty savvy on eBay dealings, but I could have made a mistake.

I don't see any reason for the non-communication, but some guys just act and don't brag. The fact that I had a UPS Delivery Attempt notice on my door Wednesday night tells me that he may fall in that category.

His 100% positive feedback tells me this could have a happy ending -- it's pretty hard to maintain 100% through 1300 sales.

If that package turns out to be the Lilliput, I'll owe him a big apology. And he'll get it. Plus good feedback that says something like, "Instant shipping; not much communication, but fast shipping is more important."

And I'll edit that post above (#476)to be sure the whole story is there, and that he gets the credit for shipping and trusting me to do the right thing.

And one other thing: I don't want to ding anybody's perfect rating in a dispute over $3. That's just a cheap shot. I wouldn't want him to do it to me.

**rdholtz** · 03-28-2009, 07:43 AM

Monitor Mystery Pretty Well Resolved

Well, the mystery of the monitor continues, sort of, but that isn't any fault of the seller. I gave UPS a corrected address so it could be delivered at work, and somehow we got our wires crossed; the address I gave and the address they got aren't the same, and it was undeliverable. They're closed weekends, so I'll pick it up Monday at the UPS center.

But it does seem pretty certain that it's the monitor; everything else I've ordered is here. So, now that all of the much-ado-about-nothing concerning the monitor is over, I can go back to figuring out how to get this Lilliput in place. And after I pick it up, I'll go back and correct my post about the $3.00 misunderstanding. If this package is the monitor -- as I'm almost sure it is -- the seller did well by me.

One thing that's pretty interesting to me is the idea of mounting it upside down and leaving the buttons where they can be reached, but where they aren't easily seen. That may make the angle of the screen better.

Another possibility is to make the bezel with a little flip-up panel so I can have access as necessary, but so they aren't normally in view. This seems pretty appealing, although it willl take a lot of finely detailed engineering. That'll be a good challenge.

**HiJackZX1** · 03-28-2009, 10:55 AM

I'm glad you went with the Lilliput. I have bought Shark screens and they all seem to be low grade and cr@ppy. My 15 inch was a Shark screen and when I plugged it in the screen looked like sh!+. It turns out it runs at some god awful refresh rate that my graphics card barely hit (52MHZ). Eventually I started to have issues with my graphics card because I was having to run 52MHZ for that screen, then 60MHZ (which is standard) on all others. Once I disconnected the Shark, all issues went away. I am a huge Lilliput fan, so far all my 7" screens are Lilliput, and the 4 new ones will be Lilliput too.

Rdholtz, you know whats funny though. Remember I was selling that 7 inch Lilliput, well I regret it because I ended up not being able to finish a wireless screen project and now I need to replace the screen I sold, lol