Thread: Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1

Originally Posted by MeeM

How'd you go with the keyboard? I'm seriously considering this keyboard for my setup. It looks quite simple and neat, and it might just fit in the storage compartment underneath my airconditioning controls which makes it very convenient for me. It's very well priced too.

I finally got it to pair. After turning it on (switch is on the back) and putting it in pairing mode (by pressing the tiny "Connect" button on the face), I told my Blackberry to find it, and it did. It asked for a code; the vendor said any code can be used. I entered "6666" on the Blackberry and hit "Enter", then entered the same code on the keyboard and hit "Enter" there. After a short delay, the Blackberry reported it paired. Now I need to pair it with my EeePC and try it out as a carPC keyboard, because the Blackberry doesn't accept input from it. That appears to be a Blackberry issue, not the keyboard's.

The upshot is that I can't give it high marks, yet, because I have to get it working with a machine. I'll give that another shot tonight.

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Is it backlit? i think that was the main reason I didnt go for this keyboard. Also you use CF as your front end? From the past, the special BT stack that CF uses can only use either phone or an item. You cant do both or CF acts all b!+chy about it. I tried to use phone and BT GPS, and it would only allow me to do one or the other.

From the looks of it, my keyboard is the same size as you rdholtz keyboard, but mine has bigger keys, but no spacing. Mine also lights up. Good thing is, both keyboards fit in tight places. I keep mine in my little compartment on my center console.

Right now, I'd say yours is the one that works, Jack, so it would be my choice. Mine is not backlit, but that's okay with me. If I get it working, then it's a matter of cost versus features. More testing is required.

And if Centrafuse acts up with a Bluetooth keyboard, that will make it harder to love. I'm kind of surprised that CF has Bluetooth issues, because it employs the widely-used Blue Soleil system. I'll give this Bluetooth keyboard a shot, but I need to get my Blue Soleil registration from CF before I do that, and I seem to have forgotten my logon. Must be brain fade. If I can't get it to work, I'll just have to send it off to MeeM and let him try it.

Originally Posted by rdholtz

If I can't get it to work, I'll just have to send it off to MeeM and let him try it.

Bring it on

Laying Out a PC Chassis, Part 2

Back in post #483, I talked about laying out a chassis to mount the components in the dash. I've been sketching out the various ways I could produce this chassis design to fit the 7-inch x 4.5-inch (double-DIN) opening. The base concept is that it would be made from perforated steel. Here are the options I'm considering so far:

• Set it up as five panels. The top, bottom and shelf would all be the same design -- flat panels bent to form flanges on the sides where they attach -- and the same width, although they could be different lengths. The side panels would be simple 7-inch x 4.5-inch rectangles; they could be either perforated steel or solid material.
  
• Bend the top, bottom and sides from a single piece of perforated steel, then add perforated shelves.
  
• Bend the sides and bottom from a single piece, and add the top and shelf.

To keep the sides fairly smooth, I'll try using rivnuts on the shelves, and washered flathead screws -- much like hard drive screws -- to attach them. If I use non-perforated steel sides, I'll probably make slots in them for flexibility in positioning the parts.

A standard double-DIN unit will fit the Scion just fine, providing far more space than I need to mount just the touchscreen fan, the M2-ATX power supply, and the wiring blocks. There will be good space to mount the motherboard if I choose to go with a component build.

The location of the screen will determine where the chassis will fasten to the stock Toyota double-DIN mount brackets. That, in turn, will determine whether I need to notch the chassis to fit the Scion's opening; there's a large tubular crossmember across the back that may present a space problem at the bottom, but there's plenty of additional depth available at the top. I noticed that blk02si's chassis design -- from which mine is derived -- has a similar notch based on his original Mustang installation, so that may be a common issue.

Looks Like I'll Go The Component Route

Well, this isn't really a surprise; I've been thinking about it for a while, but events stepped in and made it easy. One of the guys at the store wanted to sell his Intel D945GCLF2 board that he's had for a month or so, and move his system to an MSI All-In-One Atom box. We agreed on a price that made us both happy, and I swapped cash for the board. This means I've committed to a component system, replacing the EeePC. I'll install 2GB of memory; this board takes 533 or 667 DIMMs, and they're even less expensive than laptop SODIMMs.

A little research indicated that the December 2008 BIOS flash for the board -- if it isn't at that level already -- will allow the unit to run 800 x 480, which is the native resolution of the Lilliput 889GL. Perfect.

I have some work to do before I can fire the system up, though. I need a chassis to hold it. The perforated-steel chassis I talked about in post #483 and post #494 should do the trick just fine. It's 7 inches wide (external dimension), and the Atom board is 6-3/4 inches square, so it just fits. Now I really need to get going on that chassis so I can figure out where all the pieces will go. At present, it looks like the M2-ATX power supply will sit at the top, the Atom board will sit in the middle, and the 2.5-inch hard drive(s) will mount on the bottom.

Laying Out a PC Chassis, Part 3

After making a rough cardboard mockup of the double-DIN chassis, and comparing it to the room I have left after installing the complete Lilliput 889GL, I see some changes that can be optional, and some that will be required.

• If I build an end panel on the chassis, I think I can mount the Lilliput on it, using the Lilliput's built-in slider mount. That will let me adjust for height easily.
  
• I initially considered making the front and both sides a single piece of steel, bent in a big "U" shape. But, by making the front separate, I'll gain more flexibility in the screen angle. I'd prefer to keep the screen relatively close to vertical because that will help eliminate glare from the side windows. I could also make small adjustments in the screen's tilt angle by changing the attach points of the chassis mounts and thus tilting the entire chassis in the dash. Because tilting the chassis will change not just the screen angle, but also its vertical position, I'll want that screen height adjustment.
  
• The Intel D945GCLF2 motherboard can mount about in the middle of the chassis, but I'm going to angle it, so it's lower at the dash and higher toward the firewall. That will let me avoid the big tubular crossmember that runs across the lower part of the bay about 7 inches forward of the dash opening. The mainboard will mount with the ports -- and cables -- facing forward, away from the cockpit.
  
• Since the Intel board is almost as wide as the chassis, I see no need for a shelf; I could use sheet metal angles mounted to the sides to mount the Intel's four corner mounting points, which you can see here:

I might want to add a piece of that same small angle material running across the open (forward) end to provide lateral stability. Eliminating the shelf will improve airflow in the chassis and thus help keep the system cool.

• The top shelf -- where the M2-ATX DC-DC Power Supply Unit will mount -- can be short or even non-existent. I expect to move the PSU forward enough that the ATX harness can drop down between the end panel and the PSU. There's a possibility I could completely eliminate the shelf by simply providing a pair of PSU mounting tabs. No shelf = better cooling. You can see in the picture below that the PSU only has one mount point on each end.

For reference, the Intel board is 6.75 inches square, and the M2-ATX, which appears to be larger here, is only 6.31 wide.

• In the end panel, I plan to mount a fan pulling air off the Lilliput and blowing across the PSU and the mainboard.
  
• The hard drives can mount in the bottom, on a shelf about 5 inches deep. They'd face so the cables go toward the front of the car; this means the cables can be pretty short. The hard drive shelf could angle up a little, probably on an angle matching the mainboard, to give plenty of clearance around the crossmember. There's a possibility this shelf could also be eliminated and replaced by two small crossmembers to allow better cooling airflow around the drives.
  
• I'll have to see if a top panel is necessary. Cooling issues will likely determine whether I need it to maintain good airflow across the mainboard and PSU.

Maybe That Perforated Steel Won't Be So Perfect

I've been re-thinking the use of perforated steel for the carPC chassis. For many systems -- especially for low-power-usage ones like the Atom -- perforated steel would be great because the small amount of heat generated already dissipates easily, and the perforated steel would make that dissipation even better than a closed box would allow.

Perforated steel would be fine for mine if I wasn't going to use a monitor cooling fan. But because I'm using that fan, I'd like to explore airflow patterns to determine whether I want to to use perforated or solid material for the panels. My first impression is that a non-perforated front panel -- and maybe non-perforated sides and top -- would help move the air around better because it would force circulating air to take a longer path from the monitor fan outlet back around to the fan inlet. I don't want the cooling air to be able to go out of the fan and right back in, because that means the fan might just circulate hot air instead of sending it away from the monitor.

While the primary point of the fan is to take care of cooling the monitor, its secondary role is additional CPU and PSU cooling. This whole thing will be stuffed into the dash, and it gets pretty hot in there until the car's cooling system gets rolling. Forcing the output of the monitor fan across those boards will keep them cooler, too, especially at startup when the dash has been sitting in the sun; the monitor will still be cool, so the air coming off it won't add to the under-dash temperature. By the time the monitor heats up, the car's cooling system will be pushing cool air.

Because I think the airflow issue is important, I'll probably explore the perforated panels, but my direction right now is to go with the solid ones.

plan the cooling carefully, it can be a nightmare, it sure was for me. took 3 different designs to get mine right. let me me ask though, does the pc have to go in the dash? what about putting the atom board in the glove box? i have never seen a xb interior, but i am sure it has many other places to put the contents of the glovebox. only thing i have in my dash space is the screen with a quiet fan since my screens are old school and use a CCFL bulb. is your screen CCFL or LED? if its LED you may not need cooling for it.

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

plan the cooling carefully, it can be a nightmare, it sure was for me. took 3 different designs to get mine right. let me me ask though, does the pc have to go in the dash? what about putting the atom board in the glove box? i have never seen a xb interior, but i am sure it has many other places to put the contents of the glovebox. only thing i have in my dash space is the screen with a quiet fan since my screens are old school and use a CCFL bulb. is your screen CCFL or LED? if its LED you may not need cooling for it.

No, the PC doesn't have to go in the dash, but I really like the idea of putting it there. I've read about many in-dash installations -- a lot of them using the kit from blk02si -- and they seem to work fine. Putting it all in the dash keeps everything in one location, which makes the wiring easier and reduces the probability of sound system noise. It will make for relatively easy maintenance, too: three screws and the bezel pulls off, then one screw to dismount the monitor, and four screws to detach the chassis from the dash. Then it's ready to unplug and do whatever needs to be done.

The Lilliput 889GL is an LED backlit unit, so it should stay pretty cool; the fan is just a precaution, and a supplement to the CPU cooling fan. It's going to help keep the PSU cool, too.

One advantage to the dash location is that it's open at the bottom to all the cockpit air; it isn't just a closed-off space. I could probably just install a big, slow-turning fan in the lower part of the dash and have it blow cockpit air up into the dash. That alone might well be enough to keep all these low-power (and therefore low-heat-production) devices cool.

Originally Posted by rdholtz

No, the PC doesn't have to go in the dash, but I really like the idea of putting it there. I've read about many in-dash installations -- a lot of them using the kit from blk02si -- and they seem to work fine. Putting it all in the dash keeps everything in one location, which makes the wiring easier and reduces the probability of sound system noise. It will make for relatively easy maintenance, too: three screws and the bezel pulls off, then one screw to dismount the monitor, and four screws to detach the chassis from the dash. Then it's ready to unplug and do whatever needs to be done.

The Lilliput 889GL is an LED backlit unit, so it should stay pretty cool; the fan is just a precaution, and a supplement to the CPU cooling fan. It's going to help keep the PSU cool, too.

One advantage to the dash location is that it's open at the bottom to all the cockpit air; it isn't just a closed-off space. I could probably just install a big, slow-turning fan in the lower part of the dash and have it blow cockpit air up into the dash. That alone might well be enough to keep all these low-power (and therefore low-heat-production) devices cool.

Yea, I hear you, I kind of wish I could have gone that route, but because I had to build a psychotically big system, I'm stuck. I am kinda upset that I cant use the space behind my dash, its literally empty. Just one relay and the Screen fan are back there. I think a fan blowing up into the dash on one side (driver) then another fan on the passenger side drawing the air out would be awesome. That would most def keep a nice cycle of air going.