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Thread: Scion xB '06, in-dash Atom 330, Lilliput 889GL; details, pictures, links. Index: pg 1

  1. #591
    Sheepdog rdholtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiJackZX1 View Post
    I have never done much welding work, but what about an arc welder? Also have you thought of a epoxy? I used aircraft grade epoxy on my roof plate for the 15 inch flip down. It has never budged, or chipped or anything, even with the fast driving conditions I put it through.

    JB Weld can come apart sometimes, Using Aircraft grade is better. Not sure where to buy it though. I went to a welding shop and after fighting with them to weld the plate and them refusing, they said the aircraft grade will work just as well.

    PS: The aircraft grade epoxy is veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy strong smelling and I think toxic, so make sure it is an open area for at least 2 days. I learned the hard way with a smell being trapped in my house for 3 weeks.
    Yes, I considered epoxy, but it's very permanent, and I want to be able to disassemble this chassis. I agree that, for any place we might want to use epoxy, aircraft-grade epoxy is the way to go. Aircraft Spruce & Specialty carries it; search their site for "epoxy".
    .
    If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

    2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
    .

  2. #592
    Sheepdog rdholtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcm View Post
    If you don't already have any welding equipment, forget about it

    You would definitely want to tig (GTAW) weld sheet this thin.

    Aluminized steel is not a problem w/ GTAW, you would prep the weldment via abrasives anyway, leaving the underlying mild steel. I am assuming you are painting this in the end.

    The advantages of course are in strength (probably not important for this application) and size/shape of joints; the weld bead itself should be very low profile but it would additionally very easy to grind down to a flush surface. Spot welding w/ tig is very easy also.

    Obvious disadvantage would be permanence!
    Your original two-word response -- "Weld it." -- threw me, and I wasn't sure if it was just a wisecrack, or if it was a real suggestion; now I see you do know something about welding, and it was a genuine suggestion.

    A bit of backgound for those who don't know: TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding is now formally called GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding), and MIG (Metal Inert Gas) is now called GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding). The new names started into use in the 1970's, and many of us who grew up in the "MIG and TIG" days still call those processes by their original names.

    Welding is fascinating stuff. I have a friend -- another old guy -- who's a welding master. He's demonstrated cutting two aluminum Coke cans in half and GTAW welding the bottoms together. He's an extraordinary guy who runs an awesome machine shop, and I've never seen anyone else weld such very thin aluminum. You have to have the settings just right, or it simply makes holes. Another friend was a Marine Corps diver -- he enlisted during World War II -- and he learned to weld underwater.

    For this chassis application, welding is certainly a possibility, and we do have a nice GMAW/GTAW rig that hasn't even been christened yet. But welding just doesn't appeal to me here. I don't want to paint when I finish, so grinding isn't a process I want to use. I do like the idea that there wouldn't be as many fasteners sticking out, but that's an aesthetic thing, not a functional need. I hadn't thought about GMAW spot welding; that's an interesting idea.

    Still, I like the machine-screw fastening process because it gives me a chassis that can be completely disassembled. Also, I'm having a ball experimenting with punching and bending and using various materials, and especially trying out the rivet nuts. I'm teaching myself to bend metal to the dimensions I want, with the goal being to be able to cut a piece to size, punch the holes, and bend to final shape -- just like a production shop would.

    And one final reason is that I want to produce a chassis that most MP3Car members could produce using only basic sheet metal tools. Not many will have access to a welding rig, where the tools I'm using are surprisingly inexpensive.

    This garage shop is really almost a laboratory for us -- a place to try new things and learn new skills and processes. It's definitely not a production shop, but I suspect that's because we don't much care for repetitive tasks. We like to keep finding new mistakes to make.
    .
    If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

    2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
    .

  3. #593
    mcm
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdholtz View Post
    Your original two-word response -- "Weld it." -- threw me, and I wasn't sure if it was just a wisecrack, or if it was a real suggestion; now I see you do know something about welding, and it was a genuine suggestion.

    A bit of backgound for those who don't know: TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding is now formally called GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding), and MIG (Metal Inert Gas) is now called GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding). The new names started into use in the 1970's, and many of us who grew up in the "MIG and TIG" days still call those processes by their original names.

    Welding is fascinating stuff. I have a friend -- another old guy -- who's a welding master. He's demonstrated cutting two aluminum Coke cans in half and GTAW welding the bottoms together. He's an extraordinary guy who runs an awesome machine shop, and I've never seen anyone else weld such very thin aluminum. You have to have the settings just right, or it simply makes holes. Another friend was a Marine Corps diver -- he enlisted during World War II -- and he learned to weld underwater.

    For this chassis application, welding is certainly a possibility, and we do have a nice GMAW/GTAW rig that hasn't even been christened yet. But welding just doesn't appeal to me here. I don't want to paint when I finish, so grinding isn't a process I want to use. I do like the idea that there wouldn't be as many fasteners sticking out, but that's an aesthetic thing, not a functional need. I hadn't thought about GMAW spot welding; that's an interesting idea.

    Still, I like the machine-screw fastening process because it gives me a chassis that can be completely disassembled. Also, I'm having a ball experimenting with punching and bending and using various materials, and especially trying out the rivet nuts. I'm teaching myself to bend metal to the dimensions I want, with the goal being to be able to cut a piece to size, punch the holes, and bend to final shape -- just like a production shop would.

    And one final reason is that I want to produce a chassis that most MP3Car members could produce using only basic sheet metal tools. Not many will have access to a welding rig, where the tools I'm using are surprisingly inexpensive.

    This garage shop is really almost a laboratory for us -- a place to try new things and learn new skills and processes. It's definitely not a production shop, but I suspect that's because we don't much care for repetitive tasks. We like to keep finding new mistakes to make.
    It was a little bit of a wisecrack knowing your requirement for modularity and disassembly...

    I got into TIG welding a couple of years ago, trust me.. everyone still calls it TIG, even the newbies like me.

    You are right that TIG is all about the right parameters, once you have that understood (no mean feat), the requisite hand/eye coord is something anyone can master with practice.

    Show us some of the metal forming/cutting/punching tools you are using! I am a pretty big fan of Grizzly metalworking tools, their Taiwanese and high end Chinese stuff is excellent value, but I do not have any of their sheetmetal forming stuff or any punch tooling at this time.. My garage is too full already and I need to build out a shop before collecting more ironmongery

  4. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdholtz View Post
    And one final reason is that I want to produce a chassis that most MP3Car members could produce using only basic sheet metal tools. Not many will have access to a welding rig, where the tools I'm using are surprisingly inexpensive.

    This garage shop is really almost a laboratory for us -- a place to try new things and learn new skills and processes. It's definitely not a production shop, but I suspect that's because we don't much care for repetitive tasks. We like to keep finding new mistakes to make.
    I like the way you think, and that you try to make what you do achievable by the rest of us loonies. I really enjoy seeing work done by the masters; like the welders you speak of, but the stuff that inspires me is the guys with a screw driver, a piece of ribbon and a peanut slab produce something that looks fantastic - you go boy!

  5. #595
    mcm
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    Quote Originally Posted by captcol View Post
    I like the way you think, and that you try to make what you do achievable by the rest of us loonies. I really enjoy seeing work done by the masters; like the welders you speak of, but the stuff that inspires me is the guys with a screw driver, a piece of ribbon and a peanut slab produce something that looks fantastic - you go boy!
    Peanut Slab... that brings back memories. Haven't seen those things here in the U.S. at all

    Anyway, if you are really into macguyvering things, and if you are in the U.S., you should check out a grass roots auto racing event called 24 Hours of Lemons. With a budget of $500 for your car outside of safety gear, you see some pretty amusing efforts e.g., in the last event around these parts, one car was a Geo Metro with the motor out of a Hayabusa and used the rubber cup from a toilet plunger as the main seal... it ended up doing quite well apparently.

  6. #596
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    sounds like the kind of thing that I would be into but OSH would close down here in New Zealand ... now I would like to see what macguyver would use to make a carputer

  7. #597
    mcm
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    Quote Originally Posted by captcol View Post
    sounds like the kind of thing that I would be into but OSH would close down here in New Zealand ... now I would like to see what macguyver would use to make a carputer
    Hmm.. I am originally from Dunedin Moved here when I was 18.

  8. #598
    Sheepdog rdholtz's Avatar
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    Please excuse the long time in answering the last several posts. I've had to make a quick trip to Michigan to help care for my Dad, who fell at a meeting and broke his kneecap last week. He's really hurting, and we're taking turns spending time in the hospital and care center with him. Tonight's my night with him, and he's my focus right now. He's a pretty amazing guy, and this is an opportunity to be there for him like he's been there for me so many times.

    I'll be back to you tomorrow. Thanks for your patience . . .

    In the meantime, I'd sure like to know what a peanut slab is.
    .
    If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

    2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
    .

  9. #599
    mcm
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdholtz View Post

    In the meantime, I'd sure like to know what a peanut slab is.
    It's a chocolate bar with peanuts (and now almonds and other options) made in NZ. It's more of a BRICK than a "bar", hence the term SLAB



    So.. effing.. good..

  10. #600
    Low Bitrate skeet2331's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about your dad. Family always comes first.
    Lilliput EBY701, M2-ATX, Intel 1.8 GHz, 1GB Ram, 160 GB 2.5 hard drive, Centrafuse, Garmin Mobile PC, GlobalSat BU-353.
    My 2000 Saturn SL2 Worklog

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