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Thread: [DEAD]Project Turtle: 1993 Toyota Tercel/56K=FAIL

  1. #531
    FLAC freeflashstuff's Avatar
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    Ugh... Spent all day yesterday replacing the fuel pump in mom's 1988 Chevy C1500, ended up replacing the fuel filter, the pump and the relay($300 and 14 hours later; had to drop the tank out... ). But school starts tomorrow and on the weekends I'll be working on the Turtle, hopefully I have enough 4 guage to redo the AUX battery system, and(I guess) since I will be using a full-sized car battery, I'll need an actual battery isolator? Anyone?
    I have bad luck with vehicles...

  2. #532
    Sheepdog rdholtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeflashstuff View Post
    . . . hopefully I have enough 4 guage to redo the AUX battery system, and(I guess) since I will be using a full-sized car battery, I'll need an actual battery isolator? Anyone?
    Nope. Relays work wonderfully well, and are not failure-prone parts. That battery isolator is as big as it is because it needs to dissipate heat, which means it's creating resistance, and all that points to it as a possible point of failure. Relays work fine.
    .
    If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

    2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
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  3. #533
    FLAC freeflashstuff's Avatar
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    Cool, I'll just need to get some new ends to fit my 4 guage wire, the ones I have are meant for up to 12 guage. AutoZone loves me as of late. I've given them so much service... But all my projects are going to be weekenders as school starts tomorrow...
    I have bad luck with vehicles...

  4. #534
    Newbie ozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeflashstuff View Post
    since I will be using a full-sized car battery, I'll need an actual battery isolator? Anyone?
    If you can help me with the load calculations of what you are running, we can figure out if a relay will carry the load.

    99% of the battery isolator's use diodes to prevent the batteries from fighting each other. The exception was considered revolutionary... it's a heavy duty relay...

    http://www.defender.com/category.jsp...1495&id=303336

    It's also more efficient, less power loss, and can do up to 200amps

    Most of us here do not need more than 35-40 amps, even the people with medium stereo gear...

    If you have 1000watt thumper, we may want to look into some different options. I helped one guy install a complete 2nd charging system-- 2nd alternator, 2nd battery... The reason was, he never wanted his starting battery to go dead... And, your primary alternator was not designed to recharge from dead and power the features of your car.

    So--- The very definitive answer is "maybe"

    A quick update-- I found a GREAT link that explains this better...

    http://www.bcae1.com/battiso.htm

    Keep in mind, the design shown is for heavy duty stereo applications, so they use solenoids, which have higher current capability and draw. Still more efficient and cost effective than the diode based systems.... But plan on replacing the solenoids once every ~2 years.
    .
    If a little will do a little good, then a lot will do a lot of good.

    2005 Scion XB with AMD X2 64 5600+, 17" Touchscreen, Centrafuse

  5. #535
    FLAC freeflashstuff's Avatar
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    I have a 30A relay. I wanna run my 200W amp, my HU, and my PC(with the screen) Opus 120 and a Lilliput 701. Or just the PC(Opus 120). Whichever works best.
    I have bad luck with vehicles...

  6. #536
    Newbie ozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeflashstuff View Post
    I have a 30A relay. I wanna run my 200W amp, my HU, and my PC(with the screen) Opus 120 and a Lilliput 701. Or just the PC(Opus 120). Whichever works best.
    Ok, so depending upon the AMP you are using-- we can use some rough rules and say divide the max output by 6 and come up with 33 amps at 12V... but its easier to look at the inline fuse provided by the manufacturer... if it has a 10amp fuse, you won't be feeling 200 watts... The most efficient amps i've seen have a factor of 10... But I am getting WAY off track.

    So, lets add up your components.


    The huge variable in this is the head unit...

    Lets go worst case and say... you are using a 45watt x 4 channel, and using the 200watt amp to power a sub wofer only... but It's easier to look at the size of the fuse provided by the head unit mfg...

    Lets say it's 15amp...

    Head unit 15 x 12=~180 watts
    33 amps at 12v = ~400 watts
    Opus 120 at 12v =~120 watts
    Lilliput 701 =~10 watts


    Roughly peak load of 710 watts- divided by 12V gives us ~60amps

    So... with everything on, turned all the way up... 60amps.

    Step up to a bigger relay-- continuous load. These units will withstand 100amp in-rush, 85amp for a while... and 60 amps for 1 million+ cycles...

    Here is a nice 70amp continous duty, 5 pin model for $9.50

    http://www.texasindustrialelectric.c...rc700112nn.asp

    The 70 amp unit will be over kill...

    How many amp hour's is your battery?? I'd like to see how long all of this will run...
    .
    If a little will do a little good, then a lot will do a lot of good.

    2005 Scion XB with AMD X2 64 5600+, 17" Touchscreen, Centrafuse

  7. #537
    FLAC freeflashstuff's Avatar
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    HU has a 10A fuse, AMP has a 20A fuse, OPUS has a 20A and the battery is a Duralast Gold, rated at 700 CCA, but IDK the Ah rating, I think it's 35, but I'm not sure.

    I'm off to wash my car...
    I have bad luck with vehicles...

  8. #538
    Newbie ozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeflashstuff View Post
    HU has a 10A fuse, AMP has a 20A fuse, OPUS has a 20A and the battery is a Duralast Gold, rated at 700 CCA, but IDK the Ah rating, I think it's 35, but I'm not sure.
    So, based on those numbers, your peak maximum load would be 50 amps--

    And, since the OPUS is 20 of the 50, it's not a real 50. The opus 120 is closer to 10amps peak. So, your real peak load is most likely around 35amps with the Screen.

    I'm not one to under do it... You are in the realm where it'll work, but you are pushing your 30amp relay. The 30amp relays will take around 100amps of surge, and carry the 35amp load for an extended period-- but it'll burn up quicker.

    Now... realistic runtime numbers should be closer to 28 amps-- unless you really do keep the volume cranked. Then the loads will be higher.

    I've searched several 700CCA batteries trying to find the Ah ratings... Averaged them out to make sure these numbers are rough-- and came up with 63Ah... fully charged a draw of 28amps will run for 135 minutes.

    Who said math was not fun!!

    now... if you kill the stereo, the run time jumps to 468 minutes...
    Turn it up and impress your friends and neighbors... it'll drop down to 108 minutes.

    These are just a guide-- your install, ambient temp, charge level, wire guage, and music selection will impact the run time...
    .
    If a little will do a little good, then a lot will do a lot of good.

    2005 Scion XB with AMD X2 64 5600+, 17" Touchscreen, Centrafuse

  9. #539
    FLAC freeflashstuff's Avatar
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    I found a workaround to avoid frying the relay. I took the line that leads to all of the interior electrical things and stuck it on the positive terminal on the battery. Now just the OPUS runs through the relay. I just need to replace the positive terminal tomorrow after school because I over-tightened it. I tested everything, and so far so good; *knock on wood* just burned up the LED in the toggle switch on the IGN line to the OPUS, but it's not important.

    Taken at night, believe it or not(9:30pm Mountain time, actually )
    Both batteries

    AUX battery, Duralast Gold; 700CCA (black wire = factory interior electrical wire; yellow = charging wire w/ 30A thermal breaker(and another 30A breaker where it connects at my distribution block; blue = to OPUS)

    Primary battery; acquired from Saul. FVP (Factory Value Parts) brand (supposedly Johnson Controls battery, but IDK) 500 CCA
    I have bad luck with vehicles...

  10. #540
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Well I have to say that I take back everything I said about the dual battery setup. Another guy in the dakota-durango forums actually has the dual battery setup and there is very minimal mods required. In fact both batteries can fit side by side in the original spot. So I am really considering doing it now. D@mn I hate all this overkillness.
    Nirwana Project, the Android/Win 7 hybrid system!

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