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Thread: Corsa C Van + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" Capacitive touchscreen

  1. #41
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Well, both compilers improved, but gcc is still inferior to icc in the most cases,
    especially on an Intel processor. Also, icc can optimize for atom (-xSSE3_ATOM for examle).

    10% is not much, but the improvements are additive, with 10% faster kernel,
    10% for improving the init system, a 10% faster Xorg, and a 10% faster wine,
    I will notice the improvement (think about the time between the ACC on and the start of Igo8)
    (Yes, wine is slow, but I need Igo8, as the other navs are useless in Hungary)

    The most important thing, that icc will not slow down the system, and generally
    compile faster than gcc (comes handy, especially in gentoo).

    Also, I don't need to mess with the packages, as most of them will work with icc,
    I only need a few lines in /etc/portage/ and in make.conf. The kernel with linuxdna will
    work too, I only have to run the patch on my kernel.

    About CFLAGS: some apps will benefit from O3 (like sqlite and python), the most of them will
    like Os, the rest will only work with O2 or even O1 (they will use their own cflags)
    So I will use Os (well something like that) as default, with O3 for some apps.
    See intel's docs about icc, cflags and atom.

    I like to compile and patch my own kernel, and compile it with CONFIG_EMBEDDED options,
    as a carpc is an embedded system, so I don't need core dumps, printk, legacy stuff, logging,
    compatibility, and so on. Kernel will load faster if the image is smaller, and the boot time
    will improve by seconds if it boots silently (no printk messages).
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  2. #42
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    tripzero's Avatar
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    I'm very interested to see how well icc works for you. From what I hear (from having a conversation down the hall with some folks who've worked on icc, if that tells you a little about where I am right now), icc is great at optimizing loopy things (ie, like games), but not so good at optimizing things that just do crap, like firefox. Also icc often makes apps bigger and slower. Moblin cannot be compiled with icc because it would be a "disaster". The toolchain doesn't compile and probably won't without major effort.

    Furthermore, I agree with you, Intel cares a lot about speed. That's why possibly more effort goes into patching gcc: they want everything to run faster on IA, not just icc compiled apps.

    But hey, if you can get everything you want compiled on icc and it runs faster, you win. If it doesn't, you still win because it'll still compile and run fast with gcc. So either way, if you are willing to spend the time to make it work, you win.
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
    Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
    Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

  3. #43
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    ...icc is great at optimizing loopy things (ie, like games), but not so good at optimizing things that just do crap, like firefox. Also icc often makes apps bigger and slower.
    My experiences with icc: apps are almost always bigger, but faster (I think because of the better alignment)
    Generally, well designed code (like the one job/function philosophy, see linux kernel CodingStyle docs)
    helps the compiler to optimize better, and with good code design, icc works better than gcc. (based on my experiences)

    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Moblin cannot be compiled with icc because it would be a "disaster". The toolchain doesn't compile and probably won't without major effort.
    I hope Moblin is not one big unstructured executable, so they could optimize some parts of it
    (where it's worth it) with icc, like they did at MYSQL (see my prev post for the link).
    I dunno how big Moblin is, but I most of it is based on apps & libs that you can compile with icc.
    And I don't think that the Moblin's own code (like UI and stuff) is more difficult to convert
    than the linux kernel...

    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Furthermore, I agree with you, Intel cares a lot about speed. That's why possibly more effort goes into patching gcc: they want everything to run faster on IA, not just icc compiled apps.
    Yes, they started to help gcc, but it will take years for gcc to reach icc's speed in
    processor-specific optimizations. Until then, I will use icc where I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    But hey, if you can get everything you want compiled on icc and it runs faster, you win. If it doesn't, you still win because it'll still compile and run fast with gcc. So either way, if you are willing to spend the time to make it work, you win.
    It will help with the speed of the apps a bit, but the are many bottlenecks (see my other post),
    icc is just one weapon in my hand
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  4. #44
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Main bottlenecks

    Boot time
    With SSD, hibernation is not a very good idea so I need to boot fast (or use solar panels and suspend).
    I will use some embedded features of kernel to remove some basic, but in this case, useless things

    BIOS speed: I can improve it by tweaking settings, disabling unused thins, adding USB devices
    ondemand.
    Kernel boot time: also, ondemand USB devices, combined with ondemand module loading,
    no printk, no debug, no logging, other disabled features, and icc will help
    Init system: no syslog, ondemand networking, no login (!!!), no bash, it will
    just start X, and audio
    Xorg and window manager: I will use a very simple WM, with an integrated flac, ogg, and mp3 player,
    a simple todo list, so the only thing it will run separately is wine (with Igo8). The WM and Xorg
    both works well with icc.
    GPS: icc will help wine a bit, hope Igo will support linux someday.

    Runtime
    GPS: wine is the main bottleneck here too.
    Audio processing: My final plan will is to do all audio processing on pc (crossover, equalizer, etc),
    using it as a sound processor, but I need more experience with that.

    As you see, the dumb part of the design is wine, but Igo9 is coming on Android, so I will
    try an android emulator (if there is one for linux), and check which is faster.
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    Main bottlenecks

    Boot time
    With SSD, hibernation is not a very good idea so I need to boot fast (or use solar panels and suspend).
    I will use some embedded features of kernel to remove some basic, but in this case, useless things

    BIOS speed: I can improve it by tweaking settings, disabling unused thins, adding USB devices ondemand.
    Kernel boot time: also, ondemand USB devices, combined with ondemand module loading,
    no printk, no debug, no logging, other disabled features, and icc will help
    Init system: no syslog, ondemand networking, no login (!!!), no bash, it will
    just start X, and audio
    Xorg and window manager: I will use a very simple WM, with an integrated flac, ogg, and mp3 player,
    a simple todo list, so the only thing it will run separately is wine (with Igo8). The WM and Xorg
    both works well with icc.
    GPS: icc will help wine a bit, hope Igo will support linux someday.
    You can easily get a kernel to boot under 5 seconds. In fact, speaking of Atom, have a look here:
    http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/
    and here if you want proof:
    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7NxCM8ryF8[/media]
    Did you see the distro is was moblin? If you don't want to switch distros, then use the information in the first link to help speedup boot times. Instead of Ext3, you can use Ext2 since it's teh same thing as Ext3 without a journal. At the same time, I bet you can incorporate portage into moblin with a little bit of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by simplex View Post
    Runtime
    GPS: wine is the main bottleneck here too.
    Audio processing: My final plan will is to do all audio processing on pc (crossover, equalizer, etc),
    using it as a sound processor, but I need more experience with that.

    As you see, the dumb part of the design is wine, but Igo9 is coming on Android, so I will
    try an android emulator (if there is one for linux), and check which is faster.
    Getting rid of WINE would be a very good thing. I wish I could help you with the needed controls for live sound editing, but I cannot do that specifically. I can point you over to a "pro audio tools" overlay though:
    svn://svn.tuxfamily.org/svnroot/proaudio/proaudio/trunk/overlays/proaudio

  6. #46
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalCorpus View Post
    Did you see the distro is was moblin? If you don't want to switch distros, then use the information in the first link to help speedup boot times. Instead of Ext3, you can use Ext2 since it's teh same thing as Ext3 without a journal. At the same time, I bet you can incorporate portage into moblin with a little bit of work.
    Hm, interesting...especially the initrd and Xorg part...I will try them
    Well, I don't want to use moblin distro or any frontend, I want to use my own system for mainly four reasons:
    -I want a system designed around my very own needs, not for general use
    -I like C more then plugins, scrips, UI and config files
    -I need a special WM to use the abilities of the capacitive touchscreen (fancy multitouch gestures)
    -I like to experiment

    So it will be a mutant gentoo, with crippled init system, kernel, Xorg, and WM
    Check dwm, what I use on my notebook as WM, and you will understand me.
    "Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, itís pointless to make binary packages of it.
    This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions."

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalCorpus View Post
    Getting rid of WINE would be a very good thing.
    Well, find me a nav that works flawlessly in Hungary with TMC, and runs natively on linux

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalCorpus View Post
    I wish I could help you with the needed controls for live sound editing, but I cannot do that specifically. I can point you over to a "pro audio tools" overlay though:
    svn://svn.tuxfamily.org/svnroot/proaudio/proaudio/trunk/overlays/proaudio
    kross told me I can use the LADSPA plugins with ALSA, or with JACK Rack plugin, but this part of the project can wait,
    as I need bi-amped competition level components and a bunch of other expensive stuff to do that effectively.

    Main goal: win an SQ competition with carPC as headunit, so we can stop carPC vs headunit threads
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  7. #47
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Impressive case

    At work, I'm testing one of the ASUS AT3N7A-I based nettops, Windows 7 runs flawlessly.
    I ordered 30 of them, with 2GB RAM, and 160GB HDD.

    I'm using a CFI CBI-A6719TG Slim 150W Mini-ITX case. I recommend it to everyone for
    testing and HTPC purposes, my only problem is that the smaller fan inside the case
    is a bit loud. Also, the fan on the ASUS board is a crap too. You can replace both of
    them easily.

    It looks like and old VCR


    The optical drive is missing, as they would use it as a cup holder Admin vs Users - 1:0
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  8. #48
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    tripzero's Avatar
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    Also take a look at upstart for a fast init system. It's pretty quick, flexible and ripe for hacking. Also XServer 1.7 for multi-touch/multi-input support.

    Curious why you believe hibernate is bad for ssds? Is it because it writes to swap every hibernate? Seems like something you can workaround by putting your swap on some usb flash or even a regular hdd. Still, even if you hibernate twice a day everyday for 10 years you are probably still going to be okay.
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
    Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
    Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

  9. #49
    Constant Bitrate simplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Also take a look at upstart for a fast init system. It's pretty quick, flexible and ripe for hacking. Also XServer 1.7 for multi-touch/multi-input support.
    Maybe I will badly modify the good old init instead. The link posted by DigitalCorpus looks promising.
    I will check xorg-server 1.7, as soon as it will be stable in gentoo.

    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Curious why you believe hibernate is bad for ssds? Is it because it writes to swap every hibernate? Seems like something you can workaround by putting your swap on some usb flash or even a regular hdd. Still, even if you hibernate twice a day everyday for 10 years you are probably still going to be okay.
    I don't want to use usb flash or regular hdd. I would have to hibernate twice at minimum (go to work/go home),
    but I use my car more than that, so 5-10 is more realistic. I only want one easy turn off
    option (sleep), and when I know that I will not use the pc for a while, I will simply shut it down.
    Also, I simply hate hibernation, because it's evil
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

  10. #50
    Constant Bitrate vull's Avatar
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    kewl
    is that 3.5 inch drive? case looks nice and simple, but the PSU should be smaller...

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